4 ms·

The British Government should apologize to Alan Turing How?

jgrahamc 17y ago
The Australian government apologized for the treatment of the indigenous people of Australia. I think apologies matter a lot. Even though Turing is dead and has no family to apologize too, an apology would make a point about how prejudice warps the world.
- slackenerny 17y ago
  Okay. But how?
  - mynameishere 17y ago
    By saying "we're sorry" and then handing over taxpayer dollars to interest groups. It's amazing that people don't know a racket when they see one. The same crap is happening in the US. Here are some members of congress opposing an apology for slavery: http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/congress/48563437.html?page=1&c=y http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/congress/485634... Those caucus members say the disclaimer is an attempt to stave off reparations claims from the descendants of slaves. "Putting in a disclaimer takes away from the meaning of an apology," said Rep. Bennie Thompson, D-Miss. Yes, the "meaning" of the apology is step 1 in a mass larceny underway. This garbage needs to end. Everyone who actually owns slaves, I really do believe, should apologize for it. Everyone who doesn't own slaves should put their collective middle fingers in the air concerning the matter.
    - nailer 17y ago
      Fair enough: If my parents owned slaves, and I'd benefited from it, I'd like the disclaimer. If my parents were slaves, and I'd had trouble because of that, I'd like the reparation. I don't think either would be a racket. Ultimately it's unlikely a court would extend reparations inmto the present for an event so far in the past, although this does occasionally happen.
      - mynameishere 17y ago
        Umm, everybody's ancestors were slaves. I hope everyone on this board is really not that soft in the head.
        nailer 17y ago
        Reference?
  - dabeeeenster 17y ago
    Make a speech, invite the press and physically say "Sorry"
  - eugenejen 17y ago
    Just doing something like Vatican said sorry to Joan of Arc for her death. All it needs is a statement from UK government said "we are sorry for forcing Alan Turing to commit suicide. And we are sorry for cutting short his potential contributions to human being." Maybe ask Morrissey to hold a memorial concert and play some Derek Jarman's movies.
    - jgrahamc 17y ago
      I like the idea of a spoken apology, but I would prefer that someone non-gay be involved as a figure head. I'm not gay, but I feel very strongly that the treatment of Turing was despicable. Someone straight needs to be a figure head so that people can't easily dismiss any apology as somehow tied to the agenda of a gay rights group.
      - eugenejen 17y ago
        No problem for this. And I know a straight figure head is much better for this purpose. At the other hand. The UK government can always say those standard lame excuses such as "because of cold war, we have to prevent Turing to be used by communists spies". At the other hand, I wonder why gay right activists ignore Turing's story for a long time. I learned Turing's story pretty early on (I am just always curious of private lives of great minds since I was a kid)
        slackenerny 17y ago
        I wonder why gay right activists ignore Turing's story for a long time. That is fortunate. I wouldn't like Turing to become another archetypal wicked scientist in tv shows puppetry inventory. Compulsive schizophrenic Nash seducing boys, autistic Newton, insane Cantor crawling on the floor whispering "infinty, infinty" are enough for me already.
    - jlees 17y ago
      It'd be far more effective if they funded Bletchley Park, one of the best memorials to Turing (worth a visit, although the information there is woefully light on him if you've read his biography). It costs a lot to operate and won't be able to run past the next few years without funding, but the Government rejected a petition on the subject (http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/BletchleyPark/ http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/BletchleyPark/) Support for the National Museum of Computing wouldn't go amiss either.
- yangyang 17y ago
  Where do you stop? Obviously what happened to Turing was wrong. But is it better to concentrate on improving things for the future rather than endlessly looking back at the past?
bitdiddle 17y ago
yes atonement is difficult in this case. A sad story indeed. If I recall correctly from the biography Turing spent time working at Princeton as Alonzo Church had independently produced the same results so it's really the Church-Turing thesis. Statues and government apologies don't mean squat. The important thing is to never let the story be forgotten.
- michael_dorfman 17y ago
  I see the point about "government apologies", but one good way to make sure the story is never forgotten is to name public structures (roads, schools, etc.) after Turing so that his name is always in the public eye.
  - philh 17y ago
    My school houses were named after people: James, Cartwright, Francombe, Colston and Canynges. I went there for five years and don't know who any of them were. Next year I'll be living on Sir Henry Parkes Road; I have no idea who he was, either. Simply naming things after people doesn't tell the public about those people, and I think most people won't bother to research "that guy whose name is on the building". In most cases, it won't be anyone interesting, just a rich person who gave money to fund construction.
- slackenerny 17y ago
  I think people thought for a long time on how to save the story, and not only the name, from being forgotten. Apple's original logo was designed as a such tribute.
  - michael_dorfman 17y ago
    Or, more accurately, an urban legend about Apple's original logo.
    - slackenerny 17y ago
      I saw photos of Wozniak ostensibly (?) wearing heart-shaped glasses at the time, that left me with impression the logo could be intentional. I've read up on this just now and it seems that logo indeed had nothing to do with commemorating Turing's oppression. The rainbow was due to a design trend at the time, Commodore and Atari logos sporting rainbows too.

The Australian government apologized for the treatment of the indigenous people of Australia. I think apologies matter a lot. Even though Turing is dead and has no family to apologize too, an apology would make a point about how prejudice warps the world.

slackenerny 17y ago
Okay. But how?
- mynameishere 17y ago
  By saying "we're sorry" and then handing over taxpayer dollars to interest groups. It's amazing that people don't know a racket when they see one. The same crap is happening in the US. Here are some members of congress opposing an apology for slavery: http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/congress/48563437.html?page=1&c=y http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/congress/485634... Those caucus members say the disclaimer is an attempt to stave off reparations claims from the descendants of slaves. "Putting in a disclaimer takes away from the meaning of an apology," said Rep. Bennie Thompson, D-Miss. Yes, the "meaning" of the apology is step 1 in a mass larceny underway. This garbage needs to end. Everyone who actually owns slaves, I really do believe, should apologize for it. Everyone who doesn't own slaves should put their collective middle fingers in the air concerning the matter.
  - nailer 17y ago
    Fair enough: If my parents owned slaves, and I'd benefited from it, I'd like the disclaimer. If my parents were slaves, and I'd had trouble because of that, I'd like the reparation. I don't think either would be a racket. Ultimately it's unlikely a court would extend reparations inmto the present for an event so far in the past, although this does occasionally happen.
    - mynameishere 17y ago
      Umm, everybody's ancestors were slaves. I hope everyone on this board is really not that soft in the head.
      - nailer 17y ago
        Reference?
- dabeeeenster 17y ago
  Make a speech, invite the press and physically say "Sorry"
- eugenejen 17y ago
  Just doing something like Vatican said sorry to Joan of Arc for her death. All it needs is a statement from UK government said "we are sorry for forcing Alan Turing to commit suicide. And we are sorry for cutting short his potential contributions to human being." Maybe ask Morrissey to hold a memorial concert and play some Derek Jarman's movies.
  - jgrahamc 17y ago
    I like the idea of a spoken apology, but I would prefer that someone non-gay be involved as a figure head. I'm not gay, but I feel very strongly that the treatment of Turing was despicable. Someone straight needs to be a figure head so that people can't easily dismiss any apology as somehow tied to the agenda of a gay rights group.
    - eugenejen 17y ago
      No problem for this. And I know a straight figure head is much better for this purpose. At the other hand. The UK government can always say those standard lame excuses such as "because of cold war, we have to prevent Turing to be used by communists spies". At the other hand, I wonder why gay right activists ignore Turing's story for a long time. I learned Turing's story pretty early on (I am just always curious of private lives of great minds since I was a kid)
      - slackenerny 17y ago
        I wonder why gay right activists ignore Turing's story for a long time. That is fortunate. I wouldn't like Turing to become another archetypal wicked scientist in tv shows puppetry inventory. Compulsive schizophrenic Nash seducing boys, autistic Newton, insane Cantor crawling on the floor whispering "infinty, infinty" are enough for me already.
  - jlees 17y ago
    It'd be far more effective if they funded Bletchley Park, one of the best memorials to Turing (worth a visit, although the information there is woefully light on him if you've read his biography). It costs a lot to operate and won't be able to run past the next few years without funding, but the Government rejected a petition on the subject (http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/BletchleyPark/ http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/BletchleyPark/) Support for the National Museum of Computing wouldn't go amiss either.
yangyang 17y ago
Where do you stop? Obviously what happened to Turing was wrong. But is it better to concentrate on improving things for the future rather than endlessly looking back at the past?

bitdiddle 17y ago

yes atonement is difficult in this case. A sad story indeed. If I recall correctly from the biography Turing spent time working at Princeton as Alonzo Church had independently produced the same results so it's really the Church-Turing thesis. Statues and government apologies don't mean squat. The important thing is to never let the story be forgotten.

michael_dorfman 17y ago
I see the point about "government apologies", but one good way to make sure the story is never forgotten is to name public structures (roads, schools, etc.) after Turing so that his name is always in the public eye.
- philh 17y ago
  My school houses were named after people: James, Cartwright, Francombe, Colston and Canynges. I went there for five years and don't know who any of them were. Next year I'll be living on Sir Henry Parkes Road; I have no idea who he was, either. Simply naming things after people doesn't tell the public about those people, and I think most people won't bother to research "that guy whose name is on the building". In most cases, it won't be anyone interesting, just a rich person who gave money to fund construction.
slackenerny 17y ago
I think people thought for a long time on how to save the story, and not only the name, from being forgotten. Apple's original logo was designed as a such tribute.
- michael_dorfman 17y ago
  Or, more accurately, an urban legend about Apple's original logo.
  - slackenerny 17y ago
    I saw photos of Wozniak ostensibly (?) wearing heart-shaped glasses at the time, that left me with impression the logo could be intentional. I've read up on this just now and it seems that logo indeed had nothing to do with commemorating Turing's oppression. The rainbow was due to a design trend at the time, Commodore and Atari logos sporting rainbows too.