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How so? Treaties only take effect once they've been ratified by Congress. How are treaties less democratically legitimate than any other legislative act of Cong
by akjj 13y ago
How so? Treaties only take effect once they've been ratified by Congress. How are treaties less democratically legitimate than any other legislative act of Congress?
- beagle3 13y agotreaties have mostly been, since 1974, a "take it or leave it" fast-track legislation. There's no ability for congress to discuss or modify them -- and there's enormous pressure to pass them -- even if some of the parts are ridiculously unfair, and would be removed in discussion.
- icebraining 13y agoPressure from whom?
- beagle3 13y agoThe people who finance modern politics - their corporate donors. Who supposedly (see EFF) stand to gain power over governments if this thing passes. Including the US government.
- judk 13y agoBut those people pressure normal laws as well.
- ScottBurson 13y agoSure. The point is that the treaty process can give them a way to effectively enact the laws they want even though they failed to do so legislatively.
- rayiner 13y agoThe major difference is that treaties aren't subject to the Presentment Clause. Ordinary legislative acts originate in one of the houses of Congress and must be approved by both houses before being presented to the President. Some congressman or senator is on the hook for having written and sponsored that bill. International treaties are given to the Senate on a take it or leave it basis, and do not require any approval from the most democratic chamber of Congress: the House. Treaties are undemocratic by design. The framers worried that a democratic republic would not be able to present a unified front internationally. But the purpose of treaties was to govern international relations, not submarine domestic legislation under the guise of international relations.
- judk 13y agoCongress hoisted its own petard with the Interstate Commerce Clause abuse...
- cpleppert 13y ago>>The major difference is that treaties aren't subject to the Presentment Clause. Most treaties are CEA agreements that are subject to the presentment clause. >>International treaties are given to the Senate on a take it or leave it basis, Regular Treaties can certainly be amended by the senate that then makes ratification conditional. >>and do not require any approval from the most democratic chamber of Congress: the House. Hence the two thirds voting requirement for an international agreement that governs foreign relations.
- bitchypat 13y agoTreaties are one thing, sole-executive agreements are another.
- paul_f 13y agoIn the US, a huge difference between a treaty and a normal law is that only the Senate is involved in ratifying a treaty. The House does not get a vote.