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It's obvious to me that many of the Bitcoin critics in this thread have never actually used it. I prefer Bitcoin for online purchases, if a vendor accepts it, I

It's obvious to me that many of the Bitcoin critics in this thread have never actually used it. I prefer Bitcoin for online purchases, if a vendor accepts it, I'll use it. Purchases aren't tracked, or being sucked up by some SIGINT program, no fees (even in exchanging, if you do it right) and I don't have to give my CC # to the vendor.

panarky 13y ago
I've also had good experiences using Bitcoin for online transactions. Fast, cross-border, nearly free. But I assume the transactions are getting analyzed by any number of government and corporate entities. There's a lot to be learned from the public blockchain, especially if any transaction in the chain can be linked to your identity (such as sending/receiving with exchanges or online wallets). I assume that authorities have access to your identity at exchanges and online wallets, can link your identity to addresses used for deposits and withdrawals, to IP addresses you use, and from there to historical and future transactions.
- wcummings 13y ago
  Pseudo-anonymity is still loads better than a CC transaction from my point of view, but your point is taken. Of course, you can always buy Bitcoin with cash (:
  - tjoff 13y ago
    Many purchases requires that you reveal your whereabouts or otherwise identify yourself (physcial address, mail, phone number, google/service-account). And bam, you and all your transactions with the bitcoins you bought with cash are once again public.
    - wcummings 13y ago
      I think most people are familiar with what pseudo-anonymous means, no need to keep restating it in different ways.
      - tjoff 13y ago
        I'd argue that, in a shopping context, using your credit card and real name is more anonymous than using bitcoin. And I'd never even consider calling either pseudo-anonymous.
JohnTHaller 13y ago
Well, except for the fact that all bitcoin purchases are very publicly tracked for everyone to view.
- vbuterin 13y ago
  http://blockchain.info/wallet/send-shared http://blockchain.info/wallet/send-shared
- crassus 13y ago
  hopefully not for much longer[1] [1] http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/bitcoin-dark-wallet http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/bitcoin-dark-wallet
  - kolinko 13y ago
    dark wallet doesn't change a thing in that
nikolak 13y ago
>It's obvious to me that many of the Bitcoin critics in this thread have never actually used it. I've used it, not much though - maybe $100 worth of bitcoins. >Purchases aren't tracked List of transactions from your wallet is visible to anyone. >being sucked up by some SIGINT program As far as you know, but I wouldn't be surprised if your transactions are "sucked up" by some SIGINT program. Or maybe they aren't because there are websites that enable anyone to easily view transactions. >no fees (even in exchanging, if you do it right) I'd love to hear more about this. How can you buy bitcoin online without fees? Meeting with someone and buying them in person kinda defeats the purpose, you could go out and buy the items you want with cash - there are no fees for that either. And is the effort really worth the small transaction fees? Not to mention that by the time you get back home from cash-purchase the price may have gone down and you can't even buy the item you wanted now. >I don't have to give my CC # to the vendor. That one is true. Also, when paying with bitcoin you (in most cases) don't have absolutely any customer protection.
- ramblerman 13y ago
  > List of transactions from your wallet is visible to anyone. With the important side note, that nobody needs to know it is your wallet. You can create as many wallets as you want if you care about privacy. I'm not suggesting this would put you completely in the clear from NSA/professional hacker level audits, but it is miles away from doing a query in a database "Where CC=..."
  - revdinosaur 13y ago
    While this is true, one only needs to be a vendor who ships products to begin to associate metadata with purchaser's wallet address and start breaking down that privacy. Multiple addresses works in theory, but we don't know how often it's practiced. I'm not sure it's really as far away from that kind of direct correlation as you think.

panarky 13y ago

I've also had good experiences using Bitcoin for online transactions. Fast, cross-border, nearly free. But I assume the transactions are getting analyzed by any number of government and corporate entities. There's a lot to be learned from the public blockchain, especially if any transaction in the chain can be linked to your identity (such as sending/receiving with exchanges or online wallets). I assume that authorities have access to your identity at exchanges and online wallets, can link your identity to addresses used for deposits and withdrawals, to IP addresses you use, and from there to historical and future transactions.

wcummings 13y ago
Pseudo-anonymity is still loads better than a CC transaction from my point of view, but your point is taken. Of course, you can always buy Bitcoin with cash (:
- tjoff 13y ago
  Many purchases requires that you reveal your whereabouts or otherwise identify yourself (physcial address, mail, phone number, google/service-account). And bam, you and all your transactions with the bitcoins you bought with cash are once again public.
  - wcummings 13y ago
    I think most people are familiar with what pseudo-anonymous means, no need to keep restating it in different ways.
    - tjoff 13y ago
      I'd argue that, in a shopping context, using your credit card and real name is more anonymous than using bitcoin. And I'd never even consider calling either pseudo-anonymous.

JohnTHaller 13y ago

Well, except for the fact that all bitcoin purchases are very publicly tracked for everyone to view.

vbuterin 13y ago
http://blockchain.info/wallet/send-shared http://blockchain.info/wallet/send-shared
crassus 13y ago
hopefully not for much longer[1] [1] http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/bitcoin-dark-wallet http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/bitcoin-dark-wallet
- kolinko 13y ago
  dark wallet doesn't change a thing in that

nikolak 13y ago

>It's obvious to me that many of the Bitcoin critics in this thread have never actually used it. I've used it, not much though - maybe $100 worth of bitcoins. >Purchases aren't tracked List of transactions from your wallet is visible to anyone. >being sucked up by some SIGINT program As far as you know, but I wouldn't be surprised if your transactions are "sucked up" by some SIGINT program. Or maybe they aren't because there are websites that enable anyone to easily view transactions. >no fees (even in exchanging, if you do it right) I'd love to hear more about this. How can you buy bitcoin online without fees? Meeting with someone and buying them in person kinda defeats the purpose, you could go out and buy the items you want with cash - there are no fees for that either. And is the effort really worth the small transaction fees? Not to mention that by the time you get back home from cash-purchase the price may have gone down and you can't even buy the item you wanted now. >I don't have to give my CC # to the vendor. That one is true. Also, when paying with bitcoin you (in most cases) don't have absolutely any customer protection.

ramblerman 13y ago
> List of transactions from your wallet is visible to anyone. With the important side note, that nobody needs to know it is your wallet. You can create as many wallets as you want if you care about privacy. I'm not suggesting this would put you completely in the clear from NSA/professional hacker level audits, but it is miles away from doing a query in a database "Where CC=..."
- revdinosaur 13y ago
  While this is true, one only needs to be a vendor who ships products to begin to associate metadata with purchaser's wallet address and start breaking down that privacy. Multiple addresses works in theory, but we don't know how often it's practiced. I'm not sure it's really as far away from that kind of direct correlation as you think.