5 ms·

You're wrong. Women aren't adults who can be held responsible for their own actions and decisions; they're vulnerable children who need to be protected at ever

You're wrong. Women aren't adults who can be held responsible for their own actions and decisions; they're vulnerable children who need to be protected at every turn. If you (as a man) visit an Apple Store just to look around, and you walk out with a brand new laptop, you're a customer. You made a decision. Yes, Apple works very hard to maximize conversions, but you're an adult, and it's silly to shame and vilify Apple for "manipulating" a "vulnerable" man into buying their products. However, if you (as a woman) choose to have sex with a man who reads tips about how to increase his chances of having sex, you're a vulnerable victim of manipulation. That mean, bad predator who took advantage of you needs to be shamed! Western media is overflowing with tips for women to get what they want from men. And that's okay. :) But if you're a man, don't you dare read tips about how to get what you want from women. That would be misogynist. You don't hate women, do you, mindcrime?

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  > Many are quick to label casual sex as misogynistic, but this implies that women are inferior to men and can't be trusted to make their own decisions and must be protected from themselves. A community dedicated to developing, sharing, and applying methods to manipulate women into sex being considered misogynistic is not the same as casual sex being considered misogynistic.
wpietri 13y ago
We are all adults responsible for our decisions. We also are all adults, responsible for how we treat others, and how it shapes their decisions. Responsibility is not zero sum. The common name for the system in which men and women manipulate one another is called "patriarchy". (When you look beyond men and women, it's called "kyriarchy".) It's bullshit on both sides. There are two reason it's seen as worse for men, both historical. One is the men have had way more power and are still substantially advantaged. The more power you have, the more responsible you are for a fucked-up situation. The other is that people with less power are forced to be manipulative to survive. E.g., 100-200 years ago, when professional women were very rare, women focused a lot marrying well, because they didn't have a lot of other options. So there's a bunch of cultural hangover from that.
- hacker789 13y ago
  This thread is not the place for a debate about whether life has historically been (or currently is) easier on men than on women. So I'll simply say that it shows a remarkable lack of empathy and understanding for you to call those desperate men who resort to PUA tactics "powerful". Almost by definition, they are acting from a position of weakness. I realize it's currently trendy to break the world down into large, tidy, digestible traits (maleness and femaleness in this case), labeling one as "privileged" and the other as "oppressed". Life's way too complicated for that.
  - wpietri 13y ago
    The "let's not argue, so let me argue just a little" is bullshit. As to your non-argument argument, I have plenty of empathy for the desperate. But I can still condemn them using what power they have to manipulate other desperate people. Further: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-the-lowest-difficulty-setting-there-is/ http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-th...
    - hacker789 13y ago
      > The "let's not argue, so let me argue just a little" is bullshit. Huh? You tried to start an argument. I acknowledged it, noted my disagreement, and moved on. What's "bullshit" about that? And yes, I've read John's blog post. He portrays the world through a remarkably lossy lens, and his pattern of gleeful refusal to look at situations and scenarios individually (e.g. male privilege at university vs. female privilege at university) leads me to believe he can't possibly believe a word he wrote. It's masturbation material for himself and other extremely rich and influential white men to help them feel even more superior to their peers.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

dragonwriter 13y ago
> Many are quick to label casual sex as misogynistic, but this implies that women are inferior to men and can't be trusted to make their own decisions and must be protected from themselves. A community dedicated to developing, sharing, and applying methods to manipulate women into sex being considered misogynistic is not the same as casual sex being considered misogynistic.

wpietri 13y ago

We are all adults responsible for our decisions. We also are all adults, responsible for how we treat others, and how it shapes their decisions. Responsibility is not zero sum. The common name for the system in which men and women manipulate one another is called "patriarchy". (When you look beyond men and women, it's called "kyriarchy".) It's bullshit on both sides. There are two reason it's seen as worse for men, both historical. One is the men have had way more power and are still substantially advantaged. The more power you have, the more responsible you are for a fucked-up situation. The other is that people with less power are forced to be manipulative to survive. E.g., 100-200 years ago, when professional women were very rare, women focused a lot marrying well, because they didn't have a lot of other options. So there's a bunch of cultural hangover from that.

hacker789 13y ago
This thread is not the place for a debate about whether life has historically been (or currently is) easier on men than on women. So I'll simply say that it shows a remarkable lack of empathy and understanding for you to call those desperate men who resort to PUA tactics "powerful". Almost by definition, they are acting from a position of weakness. I realize it's currently trendy to break the world down into large, tidy, digestible traits (maleness and femaleness in this case), labeling one as "privileged" and the other as "oppressed". Life's way too complicated for that.
- wpietri 13y ago
  The "let's not argue, so let me argue just a little" is bullshit. As to your non-argument argument, I have plenty of empathy for the desperate. But I can still condemn them using what power they have to manipulate other desperate people. Further: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-the-lowest-difficulty-setting-there-is/ http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-th...
  - hacker789 13y ago
    > The "let's not argue, so let me argue just a little" is bullshit. Huh? You tried to start an argument. I acknowledged it, noted my disagreement, and moved on. What's "bullshit" about that? And yes, I've read John's blog post. He portrays the world through a remarkably lossy lens, and his pattern of gleeful refusal to look at situations and scenarios individually (e.g. male privilege at university vs. female privilege at university) leads me to believe he can't possibly believe a word he wrote. It's masturbation material for himself and other extremely rich and influential white men to help them feel even more superior to their peers.