4 ms·

GWT is just html. There are plenty of frameworks out there to make designer->programmer workflow work well. It's like saying that rails doesn't look good. Taki

by trapper 17y ago

GWT is just html. There are plenty of frameworks out there to make designer->programmer workflow work well. It's like saying that rails doesn't look good. Taking cappaccinos style and porting it to gwt would only be a couple of days work, if that.

boucher 17y ago
I think its more complicated than you make it sound. Though, Cappuccino is, as far as I know, the only open source web framework that has professionally designed graphics which are also open source in their PSD format for anyone to use and learn from.
- trapper 17y ago
  I didn't realise styling a website is difficult? Are you saying you couldn't style a website to look like cappacinnos given firebug and a few hours?
  - midnightmonster 17y ago
    Quite possibly not. We're not talking about styling the marketing website, but the UI of a web app. There probably won't be the right HTML hooks generated for starters, and then making it look like a cappuccino app in one state is well and good, but there are highlights, slides, toggles, and likely a subtly different style of interaction as well.
    - trapper 17y ago
      Well, I've at least styled a gwt app to be very similar in a short period of time. Usability was left to the developers. I think I might have to post a tutorial.
      - trapper 17y ago
        Proof: http://tinypic.com/r/2uym3is/5 http://tinypic.com/r/2uym3is/5 Of the two hours it took to create that, most was spent making a video, learning gwt 1.6 and downloading images from 280north (they make it hard).
        midnightmonster 17y ago
        Wrote this before you posted your demo: -------------- 280slides has such a polished theme that I think it would take some significant time to duplicate. It's not one thing--it's every thing. You might be able to get something close quicker, but I suspect it would look like I-wish-I-was-280slides. Still, from what I know of GWT (no direct experience) and cappuccino (tried it out, seemed to make lower-level DOM wrangling very hard, which was absolutely essential to the project), you're working at a higher level of UI abstraction than I yet have. With jQuery UI, I'd have to add tons of markup to my dialogs (e.g.) to implement the 280slides look, and there's no one place to do it. So, post a link to your 280slides-like GWT app and/or write that tutorial, and I may well have to admit that you are faster than I and/or have more powerful tools (likely both). And now I have to say: ----------------------------- Well no kidding it doesn't take long to borrow someone's images and arrange a few in a way that more or less looks like the original. But (not to put too fine a point on it) your demo looks very, very rough, and 280slides looks like the best-looking app you've ever used. Your buttons aren't spaced right; they look wrong in hover state; they look wrong in active state. The dialog doesn't really look anything like a 280slides one apart from having a shadow (nor does it look very good on its own merits). And that's just what I can see in a tiny, compressed video of the little bit that you built. You might still be faster than me and have better tools, but you didn't prove it here. OTOH, if you could produce something with the polish 280slides in two hours you'd be more than fast--you'd be able to rewrite the matrix from within.
        trapper 17y ago
        The demo may have looked rough because it was recorded in some weird format. The images used were the same as 280, so it can't have looked too much different - here, take a look at this comparison: http://i42.tinypic.com/2rqmx3o.jpg http://i42.tinypic.com/2rqmx3o.jpg Here is another version done with some different images I hacked up quickly: http://i43.tinypic.com/x5wjdt.jpg http://i43.tinypic.com/x5wjdt.jpg Obviously I could spend another hour fixing pixels. But that wasn't the point. The point is that GWT can be styled just like every other browser application/website, and it's trivial to do, just like it is for any other framework. If I can do this in a few hours everyone else can too.
    - trapper 17y ago
      Sorry to reply again, but this bugs me. Go to 280slides.com and tell me: what would you say is the hardest part about replicating the style of that site? Keep it specific (e.g. dialog borders or listbox), I'd like to know. I'm obviously missing something.
      - jojule 17y ago
        Take a look of Vaadin Reindeer theme: http://dev.vaadin.com/svn/versions/6.0/WebContent/VAADIN/themes/reindeer/ http://dev.vaadin.com/svn/versions/6.0/WebContent/VAADIN/the... You just can not write something line that in few hours...
- fcr 17y ago
  However I am wondering how much time is gained when one needs to custom design is website/web app. As anyone had success on customizing cappuccino's design in a small time frame? How does it compare to the other frameworks?
michaelneale 17y ago
I have worked with GWT quite a bit, and yes, its all CSS for style. But I still haven't found it easy. If you do, and are interested, I would love to hear from you in terms of making something "cappaccino style" in a few days !
- trapper 17y ago
  I've got far too much work on at the moment but if I get a chance I'll post a tutorial. What in particular have you found hard?
  - trapper 17y ago
    Heres one I just built to show how easy it is. http://tinypic.com/r/2uym3is/5 http://tinypic.com/r/2uym3is/5
    - michaelneale 17y ago
      Great work ! Well if you do get time to tutorial it up - please do ! Well I hear that people claim CSS + GWT can do most of what people want, but I never quite believe it, but glad you found it easy (even learning a little of GWT1.6).

by trapper 17y ago

boucher 17y ago

I think its more complicated than you make it sound. Though, Cappuccino is, as far as I know, the only open source web framework that has professionally designed graphics which are also open source in their PSD format for anyone to use and learn from.

trapper 17y ago
I didn't realise styling a website is difficult? Are you saying you couldn't style a website to look like cappacinnos given firebug and a few hours?
- midnightmonster 17y ago
  Quite possibly not. We're not talking about styling the marketing website, but the UI of a web app. There probably won't be the right HTML hooks generated for starters, and then making it look like a cappuccino app in one state is well and good, but there are highlights, slides, toggles, and likely a subtly different style of interaction as well.
  - trapper 17y ago
    Well, I've at least styled a gwt app to be very similar in a short period of time. Usability was left to the developers. I think I might have to post a tutorial.
    - trapper 17y ago
      Proof: http://tinypic.com/r/2uym3is/5 http://tinypic.com/r/2uym3is/5 Of the two hours it took to create that, most was spent making a video, learning gwt 1.6 and downloading images from 280north (they make it hard).
      - midnightmonster 17y ago
        Wrote this before you posted your demo: -------------- 280slides has such a polished theme that I think it would take some significant time to duplicate. It's not one thing--it's every thing. You might be able to get something close quicker, but I suspect it would look like I-wish-I-was-280slides. Still, from what I know of GWT (no direct experience) and cappuccino (tried it out, seemed to make lower-level DOM wrangling very hard, which was absolutely essential to the project), you're working at a higher level of UI abstraction than I yet have. With jQuery UI, I'd have to add tons of markup to my dialogs (e.g.) to implement the 280slides look, and there's no one place to do it. So, post a link to your 280slides-like GWT app and/or write that tutorial, and I may well have to admit that you are faster than I and/or have more powerful tools (likely both). And now I have to say: ----------------------------- Well no kidding it doesn't take long to borrow someone's images and arrange a few in a way that more or less looks like the original. But (not to put too fine a point on it) your demo looks very, very rough, and 280slides looks like the best-looking app you've ever used. Your buttons aren't spaced right; they look wrong in hover state; they look wrong in active state. The dialog doesn't really look anything like a 280slides one apart from having a shadow (nor does it look very good on its own merits). And that's just what I can see in a tiny, compressed video of the little bit that you built. You might still be faster than me and have better tools, but you didn't prove it here. OTOH, if you could produce something with the polish 280slides in two hours you'd be more than fast--you'd be able to rewrite the matrix from within.
        trapper 17y ago
        The demo may have looked rough because it was recorded in some weird format. The images used were the same as 280, so it can't have looked too much different - here, take a look at this comparison: http://i42.tinypic.com/2rqmx3o.jpg http://i42.tinypic.com/2rqmx3o.jpg Here is another version done with some different images I hacked up quickly: http://i43.tinypic.com/x5wjdt.jpg http://i43.tinypic.com/x5wjdt.jpg Obviously I could spend another hour fixing pixels. But that wasn't the point. The point is that GWT can be styled just like every other browser application/website, and it's trivial to do, just like it is for any other framework. If I can do this in a few hours everyone else can too.
  - trapper 17y ago
    Sorry to reply again, but this bugs me. Go to 280slides.com and tell me: what would you say is the hardest part about replicating the style of that site? Keep it specific (e.g. dialog borders or listbox), I'd like to know. I'm obviously missing something.
    - jojule 17y ago
      Take a look of Vaadin Reindeer theme: http://dev.vaadin.com/svn/versions/6.0/WebContent/VAADIN/themes/reindeer/ http://dev.vaadin.com/svn/versions/6.0/WebContent/VAADIN/the... You just can not write something line that in few hours...
fcr 17y ago
However I am wondering how much time is gained when one needs to custom design is website/web app. As anyone had success on customizing cappuccino's design in a small time frame? How does it compare to the other frameworks?

michaelneale 17y ago

I have worked with GWT quite a bit, and yes, its all CSS for style. But I still haven't found it easy. If you do, and are interested, I would love to hear from you in terms of making something "cappaccino style" in a few days !

trapper 17y ago
I've got far too much work on at the moment but if I get a chance I'll post a tutorial. What in particular have you found hard?
- trapper 17y ago
  Heres one I just built to show how easy it is. http://tinypic.com/r/2uym3is/5 http://tinypic.com/r/2uym3is/5
  - michaelneale 17y ago
    Great work ! Well if you do get time to tutorial it up - please do ! Well I hear that people claim CSS + GWT can do most of what people want, but I never quite believe it, but glad you found it easy (even learning a little of GWT1.6).