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Isn't your conclusion a bit of a stretch? Anyone who is a pickup artist is an asshole, and every asshole doesn't tip? Tynan is actually a pretty nice guy if y

Isn't your conclusion a bit of a stretch? Anyone who is a pickup artist is an asshole, and every asshole doesn't tip? Tynan is actually a pretty nice guy if you meet him in person. If I found an asshole that does tip, would that destroy your theory?

sanskritabelt 13y ago
All PUAs are assholes. Not all assholes are PUAs.
- csallen 13y ago
  1. That first statement isn't true, and you will never come close to proving it is. It's a broad generalization. 2. The comment you're responding to says, "Anyone who is a pickup artist is an asshole", which is synonymous with "All PUAs are assholes", so you haven't contradicted his point.
- VBprogrammer 13y ago
  An interesting thought experiment would be to consider what you'd think of a female pick up artist.
  - ceol 13y ago
    Probably the same way, but being a female pickup artist doesn't carry all of that "constantly objectified in media" and "the subject of a steady stream of slut-shaming (but if she doesn't put out she's totally a bitch)" baggage that's there when a man is trying to manipulate a woman into having sex with him.
justathrow2k 13y ago
If you're a pickup artist doesn't this imply a certain degree of dishonesty and manipulation? Not sure these are things a nice person engages in.
- danneu 13y ago
  I'd wager that the most manipulative people in social settings are people with the most neediness but least experience, self-esteem, and emotional stability. And those are things most people wrestle with to some degree. Since I imagine most guys come to the PUA community because those traits relegate them to a life of loneliness and zero ass, I would think that their real goal is to transcend those traits altogether and to become better people. It's what PUA nirvana must be.
  - justathrow2k 13y ago
    An interesting reply. But doesn't seem to address anything about the question I posed and more an attempt to throw a positive spin on PUA. I mean, what you suggest here is that people are manipulative and sad before they become involved in the PUA community, and that the joining of said community is an attempt to free them of these negative traits? I get confused by this logic because as far as I can tell the PUA community endorses manipulative and dishonest behavior, so what you're suggesting is that these lonely, manipulative, people, can transcend their manipulative behavior through more manipulative behavior.
    - auctiontheory 13y ago
      as I can tell the PUA community endorses manipulative and dishonest behavior I haven't seen anything "manipulative and dishonest" on Tynan's blog, nor in his books. Well, at some level everything we do to influence another person is "manipulative," but that's such a broad definition as to be useless.
    - parasubvert 13y ago
      Some people seem to be able to learn how to socially interact on their own. Others need coaching. Is it dishonest if it is coached? All social interactions at some level of depth eventually involve pursuasion of a sort. The question is when does that become unethical?
      - justathrow2k 13y ago

sanskritabelt 13y ago

All PUAs are assholes. Not all assholes are PUAs.

csallen 13y ago
1. That first statement isn't true, and you will never come close to proving it is. It's a broad generalization. 2. The comment you're responding to says, "Anyone who is a pickup artist is an asshole", which is synonymous with "All PUAs are assholes", so you haven't contradicted his point.
VBprogrammer 13y ago
An interesting thought experiment would be to consider what you'd think of a female pick up artist.
- ceol 13y ago
  Probably the same way, but being a female pickup artist doesn't carry all of that "constantly objectified in media" and "the subject of a steady stream of slut-shaming (but if she doesn't put out she's totally a bitch)" baggage that's there when a man is trying to manipulate a woman into having sex with him.

justathrow2k 13y ago

If you're a pickup artist doesn't this imply a certain degree of dishonesty and manipulation? Not sure these are things a nice person engages in.

danneu 13y ago
I'd wager that the most manipulative people in social settings are people with the most neediness but least experience, self-esteem, and emotional stability. And those are things most people wrestle with to some degree. Since I imagine most guys come to the PUA community because those traits relegate them to a life of loneliness and zero ass, I would think that their real goal is to transcend those traits altogether and to become better people. It's what PUA nirvana must be.
- justathrow2k 13y ago
  An interesting reply. But doesn't seem to address anything about the question I posed and more an attempt to throw a positive spin on PUA. I mean, what you suggest here is that people are manipulative and sad before they become involved in the PUA community, and that the joining of said community is an attempt to free them of these negative traits? I get confused by this logic because as far as I can tell the PUA community endorses manipulative and dishonest behavior, so what you're suggesting is that these lonely, manipulative, people, can transcend their manipulative behavior through more manipulative behavior.
  - auctiontheory 13y ago
    as I can tell the PUA community endorses manipulative and dishonest behavior I haven't seen anything "manipulative and dishonest" on Tynan's blog, nor in his books. Well, at some level everything we do to influence another person is "manipulative," but that's such a broad definition as to be useless.
  - parasubvert 13y ago
    Some people seem to be able to learn how to socially interact on their own. Others need coaching. Is it dishonest if it is coached? All social interactions at some level of depth eventually involve pursuasion of a sort. The question is when does that become unethical?
    - justathrow2k 13y ago