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I'll respond, though I'm sure the reason nobody's responded is they're as tired of this conversation as I am. 1) Yet. When boiling frogs it's best to turn the

by stolio 13y ago

I'll respond, though I'm sure the reason nobody's responded is they're as tired of this conversation as I am. 1) Yet. When boiling frogs it's best to turn the heat up slowly. Canonical isn't providing a service for free here, they make money mining your searches and sending them to 3rd parties like Amazon. Compare this with its parent distribution's Social Contract. [0] Especially the phrase "We will be guided by the needs of our users and the free software community. We will place their interests first in our priorities." Note the lack of a profit motive as compared to Canonical's continuous search for monetization schemes. 2) Real users may not realize they have a choice, or that sending searches to 3rd parties is NOT normal in the GNU/Linux world. Ubuntu has intentionally made itself a "My First Linux" distro so many of its users are new to the idea of software freedom and are in need of guidance. 2b) EULA's are no excuse. Did you know that using Adobe Flash prevents you from working on GNU Gnash? It was in the EULA you agreed to. [1] Everything's confusing during your first *nix experience, the average person probably has a mental list of a dozen things that don't make sense, that's a questionable time to get people to sign off on privacy compromises. 3) Blurring the lines between local and global is interesting. Blurring the lines between Open Source and spyware is not. [2] [0] - http://www.debian.org/social_contract http://www.debian.org/social_contract [1] - http://www.gnashdev.org/?q=node/25#eula http://www.gnashdev.org/?q=node/25#eula [2] - http://www.fsf.org/blogs/rms/ubuntu-spyware-what-to-do http://www.fsf.org/blogs/rms/ubuntu-spyware-what-to-do

rlpb 13y ago
I said that there is no privacy violation. None of your arguments demonstrate otherwise. > 1) [profit motive] The Mozilla Foundation's main source of income is making money through Google searches. If you accept Mozilla in the GNU/Linux world, then you accept this motive on your own terms. > 2) Real users may not realize they have a choice, or that sending searches to 3rd parties is NOT normal in the GNU/Linux world. This is a philosophical argument about foisting your own beliefs onto new Ubuntu users. Ubuntu has always been the pragmatic distribution. It gained popularity by making non-free codecs and proprietary drivers easily available. This pragmatism has not changed. And this still doesn't have anything to do with a claimed privacy violation. > 2b) EULA's are no excuse. Which is why I had my point 2: that it is plainly obvious that the search is a global search, and that the query was sent out to the Internet. You don't need to read any notice to see this. > [spyware] You have not shown that there is any spyware present. That would require some kind of privacy violation.
- bronson 13y ago
  There is a big difference between typing "calendar" in Firefox's search box and typing it in the local desktop's search bar. You seem to imply that they're equivalent. If Apple felt the need to monetize me every time I typed "Terminal" into Spotlight I'd switch platforms fast.
takluyver 13y ago
I don't like that the default is to search online as well as locally. But calling it spyware is hyperbole - the interface makes it quite obvious that it's doing a combined online+local search. I'd rather stick to more factual criticisms.
- stolio 13y ago
  Since we're keeping it factual I accused them of blurring the lines between open source and spyware. I linked to Richard Stallman directly calling it spyware on the Free Software Foundation website. I think collecting, mining and sharing information about your user-base for money is deeply troubling. We may not have a good word to describe this type of activity but spyware at least gets us in the right neighborhood.
iwasanewt 13y ago
2b) which part of the Adobe Flash EULA prevents you from working on GNU Gnash?
- stolio 13y ago
  From what I can tell (and I really don't know) it's rooted in Section 4.5: 4.5 No Modification or Reverse Engineering. You shall not modify, adapt, translate or create derivative works based upon the Software. You shall not reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble, or otherwise attempt to discover the source code of the Software. Exactly why they're afraid this would be binding I don't know, IP law is beyond me. - http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/eula/flashplayer10.html http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/eula/flashplayer10.html
krelian 13y ago
>Canonical isn't providing a service for free here Canonical is providing the operating system for free.

by stolio 13y ago

rlpb 13y ago

I said that there is no privacy violation. None of your arguments demonstrate otherwise. > 1) [profit motive] The Mozilla Foundation's main source of income is making money through Google searches. If you accept Mozilla in the GNU/Linux world, then you accept this motive on your own terms. > 2) Real users may not realize they have a choice, or that sending searches to 3rd parties is NOT normal in the GNU/Linux world. This is a philosophical argument about foisting your own beliefs onto new Ubuntu users. Ubuntu has always been the pragmatic distribution. It gained popularity by making non-free codecs and proprietary drivers easily available. This pragmatism has not changed. And this still doesn't have anything to do with a claimed privacy violation. > 2b) EULA's are no excuse. Which is why I had my point 2: that it is plainly obvious that the search is a global search, and that the query was sent out to the Internet. You don't need to read any notice to see this. > [spyware] You have not shown that there is any spyware present. That would require some kind of privacy violation.

bronson 13y ago
There is a big difference between typing "calendar" in Firefox's search box and typing it in the local desktop's search bar. You seem to imply that they're equivalent. If Apple felt the need to monetize me every time I typed "Terminal" into Spotlight I'd switch platforms fast.

takluyver 13y ago

I don't like that the default is to search online as well as locally. But calling it spyware is hyperbole - the interface makes it quite obvious that it's doing a combined online+local search. I'd rather stick to more factual criticisms.

stolio 13y ago
Since we're keeping it factual I accused them of blurring the lines between open source and spyware. I linked to Richard Stallman directly calling it spyware on the Free Software Foundation website. I think collecting, mining and sharing information about your user-base for money is deeply troubling. We may not have a good word to describe this type of activity but spyware at least gets us in the right neighborhood.

iwasanewt 13y ago

2b) which part of the Adobe Flash EULA prevents you from working on GNU Gnash?

stolio 13y ago
From what I can tell (and I really don't know) it's rooted in Section 4.5: 4.5 No Modification or Reverse Engineering. You shall not modify, adapt, translate or create derivative works based upon the Software. You shall not reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble, or otherwise attempt to discover the source code of the Software. Exactly why they're afraid this would be binding I don't know, IP law is beyond me. - http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/eula/flashplayer10.html http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/eula/flashplayer10.html

krelian 13y ago

>Canonical isn't providing a service for free here Canonical is providing the operating system for free.