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It's so depressing that I need to keep on devoting mental energy to Linux environments. When I use Windows or OSX I don't have to keep on guessing on what-the-

It's so depressing that I need to keep on devoting mental energy to Linux environments. When I use Windows or OSX I don't have to keep on guessing on what-the-what is going on. Then I go back to Linux for something and everything I used to know is now completely useless.

pantalaimon 13y ago
well, but it's free!
Nursie 13y ago
Is it much mental energy to take a couple of minutes to just pick one? I had to expend a lot more mental energy last time I tried to use modern Windows, and has OS X got a maximise button yet? --edit-- I'm not trying to say "My OS is better than your OS" because we all know where that leads. I just don't think anything is perfect and it likely comes down to what you're used to.
- danielweber 13y ago
  And then I find out that all the old ways I had of managing the box are out-of-date. /etc/ files give way to gnome-config-* gadgets, and don't even get me started about sound.
  - Nursie 13y ago
    Yeah, sound on Linux can still be an absolute arse, which is surprising to still have to say in 2013. I have no idea how to make my system detect headphone insertion and switch output without a bunch of manual steps. That said I've had problems trying to get windows doing 5.1 sound over HDMI too. Gnome configs are only an issue if you still use gnome :) In general things are moving to a more "it's all done for you" way of doing things, with less reliance on config files and unix file permissions and more dbus, service-oriented stuff. Personally I'm not a fan of because when things go wrong they go wrong in very, very opaque ways (try using the 'slim' display manager on Ubuntu 12.04 if you want an example). At some point someone will probably come up with "CurmudgUX" for people like me that think the new levels of system-component integration will only lead to future pain, avoiding systemd, dbus et al. Guess we'll see.
    - danielweber 13y ago
      > Gnome configs are only an issue if you still use gnome :) See, that's the problem. The old system is abandoned and I have to decide "is it worth learning the brand new system?" Keep in mind this brand new system will not be used in 5 years, either. I also don't sit around watching the forum discussions so when someone says "oh you need to uninstall gnome and install farknootz" I just say huh.
      - Nursie 13y ago
        Gnome isn't abandoned, but it took a controversial UI direction, much like Win 8. On Linux at least we have choice.
gecko 13y ago
I'm pretty openly not a Linux desktop user, but come on: if Windows hasn't rearranged core functionality in the XP to Vista/7 transition, and again in the 7 to 8 transition, and again (less so, but noticeably) in the 8 to 8.1 transition, then I don't know what your standard is. (Apple's been better about it following the initial iOS-esque feature landings, but that, too, was disruptive.) Conversely, Ubuntu's operated roughly the same way since Unity initially landed, and if anything, has become more coherent. I can't speak to other distros, but I doubt it's been a radically different story there.
- danielweber 13y ago
  I really haven't noticed a big difference between XP to 7. The control panel things moved around a bit, but the settings were all still in the Control Panel (and you could get the classic view back easily), and I had to figure out how to right-click on things "run as Admin". My son just hopped from XP to 7 and he's been having zero issues. I admit I haven't gone to Windows 8. I owe myself a new laptop and I just have this feeling of dread about that.
  - Nursie 13y ago
    XP->7 was probably way easier than doing it with Vista as an intermediate!
    - danielweber 13y ago
      I actually used Vista on one machine for years. I never saw the usability problems that UAC caused, but I appreciated the security aspect of it so I didn't mind being bugged when trying to change my IP.
  - J_Darnley 13y ago
    As someone who recently had little choice but to start using 7, I can say that the differences between XP and 7 are vast, many, and annoying. Some can be fixed with Classic Shell, some by a few choice changes to settings and appearance, but some are just features that were removed.
vidarh 13y ago
Surely this comment must be satire...
Piskvorrr 13y ago
ahem Windows 8 ahem
profquail 13y ago
Have you considered giving FreeBSD a try? I do most of my work (development) on Windows, but the times when I did use Linux, I felt much the same way you do. Then, last summer, I decided to give FreeBSD a try; I loaded it up into a VirtualBox on one of my Windows machines and was amazed at how simple and clean it felt compared to Linux, and I've found the FreeBSD community (the forums, mailing lists, etc.) to be extremely helpful while learning my way around.

pantalaimon 13y ago

well, but it's free!

Nursie 13y ago

Is it much mental energy to take a couple of minutes to just pick one? I had to expend a lot more mental energy last time I tried to use modern Windows, and has OS X got a maximise button yet? --edit-- I'm not trying to say "My OS is better than your OS" because we all know where that leads. I just don't think anything is perfect and it likely comes down to what you're used to.

danielweber 13y ago
And then I find out that all the old ways I had of managing the box are out-of-date. /etc/ files give way to gnome-config-* gadgets, and don't even get me started about sound.
- Nursie 13y ago
  Yeah, sound on Linux can still be an absolute arse, which is surprising to still have to say in 2013. I have no idea how to make my system detect headphone insertion and switch output without a bunch of manual steps. That said I've had problems trying to get windows doing 5.1 sound over HDMI too. Gnome configs are only an issue if you still use gnome :) In general things are moving to a more "it's all done for you" way of doing things, with less reliance on config files and unix file permissions and more dbus, service-oriented stuff. Personally I'm not a fan of because when things go wrong they go wrong in very, very opaque ways (try using the 'slim' display manager on Ubuntu 12.04 if you want an example). At some point someone will probably come up with "CurmudgUX" for people like me that think the new levels of system-component integration will only lead to future pain, avoiding systemd, dbus et al. Guess we'll see.
  - danielweber 13y ago
    > Gnome configs are only an issue if you still use gnome :) See, that's the problem. The old system is abandoned and I have to decide "is it worth learning the brand new system?" Keep in mind this brand new system will not be used in 5 years, either. I also don't sit around watching the forum discussions so when someone says "oh you need to uninstall gnome and install farknootz" I just say huh.
    - Nursie 13y ago
      Gnome isn't abandoned, but it took a controversial UI direction, much like Win 8. On Linux at least we have choice.

gecko 13y ago

I'm pretty openly not a Linux desktop user, but come on: if Windows hasn't rearranged core functionality in the XP to Vista/7 transition, and again in the 7 to 8 transition, and again (less so, but noticeably) in the 8 to 8.1 transition, then I don't know what your standard is. (Apple's been better about it following the initial iOS-esque feature landings, but that, too, was disruptive.) Conversely, Ubuntu's operated roughly the same way since Unity initially landed, and if anything, has become more coherent. I can't speak to other distros, but I doubt it's been a radically different story there.

danielweber 13y ago
I really haven't noticed a big difference between XP to 7. The control panel things moved around a bit, but the settings were all still in the Control Panel (and you could get the classic view back easily), and I had to figure out how to right-click on things "run as Admin". My son just hopped from XP to 7 and he's been having zero issues. I admit I haven't gone to Windows 8. I owe myself a new laptop and I just have this feeling of dread about that.
- Nursie 13y ago
  XP->7 was probably way easier than doing it with Vista as an intermediate!
  - danielweber 13y ago
    I actually used Vista on one machine for years. I never saw the usability problems that UAC caused, but I appreciated the security aspect of it so I didn't mind being bugged when trying to change my IP.
- J_Darnley 13y ago
  As someone who recently had little choice but to start using 7, I can say that the differences between XP and 7 are vast, many, and annoying. Some can be fixed with Classic Shell, some by a few choice changes to settings and appearance, but some are just features that were removed.

vidarh 13y ago

Surely this comment must be satire...

Piskvorrr 13y ago

ahem Windows 8 ahem

profquail 13y ago

Have you considered giving FreeBSD a try? I do most of my work (development) on Windows, but the times when I did use Linux, I felt much the same way you do. Then, last summer, I decided to give FreeBSD a try; I loaded it up into a VirtualBox on one of my Windows machines and was amazed at how simple and clean it felt compared to Linux, and I've found the FreeBSD community (the forums, mailing lists, etc.) to be extremely helpful while learning my way around.