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the least they can do is use that money to make an affordalbe electric car for people. Something with a $25K price tag. It's not like it is impossible to do.

by vaksel 17y ago

the least they can do is use that money to make an affordalbe electric car for people. Something with a $25K price tag. It's not like it is impossible to do. Tesla S is $50K...you can probably slash 5-10K by having them use a smaller base vehicle, instead of the Jaguar XF. Smaller base vehicle means you need less batteries. The S weighs 4,000 lbs. so by using something the size of a Civic for the base vehicle, you can probably slash the weight down to 2,500 lbs. Which means you can probably get away with using 4,000 battery cells instead of 8,000. So if they pay $5 per battery cell that's another $20K saved. Bam electric civic sized vehicle, for $25K.

tptacek 17y ago
Maybe Tesla should have done a mass-market product, or maybe not, but your argument is exceptionally weak. Iff you're right, and Tesla could get their unit cost down to $25k (a final BMW sticker price, FWIW), they'd still be left with the challenge of bringing a mass-market product to market. They'd have to build a sales and delivery channel, create a supply chain that could sustain the volumes required to run a lower-margin business, and, after all that, be competing in a segment that services value-conscious buyers, many of whom are already confused about the difference between hybrid and PEV. That's iff you're right. But you probably aren't. Because you're swagging materials costs out of thin air when talking about a product that went from $140k in materials alone to $80k in a span of months. That was apparently a harrowing crisis for a product with a six-figure sticker. For a car that would go up against a BMW 3-Series, they'd have no such margin of error. In the end, you have to ask yourself what the world should be getting from Tesla. If it's technology, then who cares who they sell it to first? Why would you ask them to pursue a business model that increases the chances that they'll go out of business before they ship rev2, rev3, and rev4? Why does the final product even need Tesla's badge on it? Maybe, like many other luxury manufacturers, Tesla's badge will always be prohibitively expensive, but their components will OEM to much more cost-effective platforms from Daimler.
- vaksel 17y ago
  How many taxpayers would approve of giving taxpayer money to subsidize $100,000 toys for a bunch of rich guys? The least we should get is some technology in exchange. Or at least an affordable option for the general population that's footing Tesla's bills. Technology is nice and all, but someone always has to foot the bill. If it's the taxpayers they should at least get something in return.
  - tptacek 17y ago
    Should the government give money to Tesla under any circumstances? I don't know. But if they're going to give them a loan, I hope Tesla pursues a business plan that keeps them operating long enough to pay it back. Tesla simply has a more effective go-to-market plan on high-end vehicles than they do with a mass-market product they're not equipped to deliver.
    - Create 17y ago
      I am under the impression, that it is only a badged Lotus form with M-B providing function. Public risk, private profit. As it has been for a while.
      - tptacek 17y ago
        That's orthogonal to the point this thread is discussing, which is whether it would have been better for Tesla to pursue a lower-end vehicle. It seems obvious that it wouldn't have been, since PEV's are an unproven early-adopter product, and since the mainstream auto manufacturers have something like a half century of sales and delivery infrastructure over Tesla.
deleted 17y ago
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by vaksel 17y ago

tptacek 17y ago

Maybe Tesla should have done a mass-market product, or maybe not, but your argument is exceptionally weak. Iff you're right, and Tesla could get their unit cost down to $25k (a final BMW sticker price, FWIW), they'd still be left with the challenge of bringing a mass-market product to market. They'd have to build a sales and delivery channel, create a supply chain that could sustain the volumes required to run a lower-margin business, and, after all that, be competing in a segment that services value-conscious buyers, many of whom are already confused about the difference between hybrid and PEV. That's iff you're right. But you probably aren't. Because you're swagging materials costs out of thin air when talking about a product that went from $140k in materials alone to $80k in a span of months. That was apparently a harrowing crisis for a product with a six-figure sticker. For a car that would go up against a BMW 3-Series, they'd have no such margin of error. In the end, you have to ask yourself what the world should be getting from Tesla. If it's technology, then who cares who they sell it to first? Why would you ask them to pursue a business model that increases the chances that they'll go out of business before they ship rev2, rev3, and rev4? Why does the final product even need Tesla's badge on it? Maybe, like many other luxury manufacturers, Tesla's badge will always be prohibitively expensive, but their components will OEM to much more cost-effective platforms from Daimler.

vaksel 17y ago
How many taxpayers would approve of giving taxpayer money to subsidize $100,000 toys for a bunch of rich guys? The least we should get is some technology in exchange. Or at least an affordable option for the general population that's footing Tesla's bills. Technology is nice and all, but someone always has to foot the bill. If it's the taxpayers they should at least get something in return.
- tptacek 17y ago
  Should the government give money to Tesla under any circumstances? I don't know. But if they're going to give them a loan, I hope Tesla pursues a business plan that keeps them operating long enough to pay it back. Tesla simply has a more effective go-to-market plan on high-end vehicles than they do with a mass-market product they're not equipped to deliver.
  - Create 17y ago
    I am under the impression, that it is only a badged Lotus form with M-B providing function. Public risk, private profit. As it has been for a while.
    - tptacek 17y ago
      That's orthogonal to the point this thread is discussing, which is whether it would have been better for Tesla to pursue a lower-end vehicle. It seems obvious that it wouldn't have been, since PEV's are an unproven early-adopter product, and since the mainstream auto manufacturers have something like a half century of sales and delivery infrastructure over Tesla.

deleted 17y ago

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