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The government probably watches over everyone in a position of power, regardless of their political opinions. It wants to make sure that the people in power are

The government probably watches over everyone in a position of power, regardless of their political opinions. It wants to make sure that the people in power aren't corrupt and aren't being manipulated. I'm pretty sure President Obama explicitly mentioned that in one of his statements. I think this "theory" of election manipulation is tenuous at best. Pull off election manipulation would take a lot of balls, a lot of secrecy, and a lot of collaboration... three things an organization as diverse as the government does not have. I'm not saying it's impossible to pull off, but the risk (potential political blowback) would certainly outweigh the reward.

fleitz 13y ago
The only problem being that if they are corrupt you now have the corrupt watching over the honest. You know... kinda like J Edgar Hoover's FBI.
grey-area 13y ago
Pull off election manipulation would take a lot of balls, a lot of secrecy, and a lot of collaboration... three things an organization as diverse as the government does not have. There is strong evidence this has been done in the recent past on a massive scale, in the US, by the intelligence agencies and president - see Nixon's plumbers, and J Edgar Hoover, and that was before these capabilities were available. Your assumption about a conspiracy being required is completely unfounded [1]. That is not a theory, that is fact, and it is in no way tenuous, so it lends serious credibility to the idea that in the present new tools are being used in similar ways. The other point which lends this credibility is the evidence we have seen of use of these powers for all sorts of industrial and political espionage abroad - they are doing exactly this sort of activity abroad (e.g. bugging Merkel before she was leader, Petrobras, Belgacom) - I find it highly likely they are also using these powers at home, at the very least to stymie investigations into their power. Note how obedient to the wishes of the spying agencies almost every politician is. it wants to make sure that people in power aren't corrupt and aren't being manipulated You seem to trust the current admin, even though they have been shown to lie repeatedly (Clapper, Obama [2]). Why do you trust that if given power they would use it in your best interests and to clean up politics, doesn't that strike you as somewhat naive given the huge compromises every politician has to make just to get elected president? [1] http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/Church_Committee http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/Church_Committee [2] http://www.newrepublic.com/article/114276/obama-surveillance-comments-dishonesty-isnt-only-problem http://www.newrepublic.com/article/114276/obama-surveillance...
anoncowherd 13y ago
> The government probably watches over everyone in a position of power, regardless of their political opinions. It wants to make sure that the people in power aren't corrupt and aren't being manipulated. What is the government if not "the people in power", and if it is, how can it make sure they're not corrupt? You're talking about The Watchers watching themselves, which just doesn't work all that well. Besides, as grey-area points out, that ship has sailed long ago. Governments (and the shadowy figures pulling the strings behind them) are all corrupt, evil sacks of shit.
Zigurd 13y ago
Show me a case where, regarding the NSA, you can say "They could, but they wouldn't."

fleitz 13y ago

The only problem being that if they are corrupt you now have the corrupt watching over the honest. You know... kinda like J Edgar Hoover's FBI.

grey-area 13y ago

Pull off election manipulation would take a lot of balls, a lot of secrecy, and a lot of collaboration... three things an organization as diverse as the government does not have. There is strong evidence this has been done in the recent past on a massive scale, in the US, by the intelligence agencies and president - see Nixon's plumbers, and J Edgar Hoover, and that was before these capabilities were available. Your assumption about a conspiracy being required is completely unfounded [1]. That is not a theory, that is fact, and it is in no way tenuous, so it lends serious credibility to the idea that in the present new tools are being used in similar ways. The other point which lends this credibility is the evidence we have seen of use of these powers for all sorts of industrial and political espionage abroad - they are doing exactly this sort of activity abroad (e.g. bugging Merkel before she was leader, Petrobras, Belgacom) - I find it highly likely they are also using these powers at home, at the very least to stymie investigations into their power. Note how obedient to the wishes of the spying agencies almost every politician is. it wants to make sure that people in power aren't corrupt and aren't being manipulated You seem to trust the current admin, even though they have been shown to lie repeatedly (Clapper, Obama [2]). Why do you trust that if given power they would use it in your best interests and to clean up politics, doesn't that strike you as somewhat naive given the huge compromises every politician has to make just to get elected president? [1] http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/Church_Committee http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/Church_Committee [2] http://www.newrepublic.com/article/114276/obama-surveillance-comments-dishonesty-isnt-only-problem http://www.newrepublic.com/article/114276/obama-surveillance...

anoncowherd 13y ago

> The government probably watches over everyone in a position of power, regardless of their political opinions. It wants to make sure that the people in power aren't corrupt and aren't being manipulated. What is the government if not "the people in power", and if it is, how can it make sure they're not corrupt? You're talking about The Watchers watching themselves, which just doesn't work all that well. Besides, as grey-area points out, that ship has sailed long ago. Governments (and the shadowy figures pulling the strings behind them) are all corrupt, evil sacks of shit.

Zigurd 13y ago

Show me a case where, regarding the NSA, you can say "They could, but they wouldn't."