4 ms·

The issue is the TPP process. You largely continue to avoid this, addressing it upthread in an 'it will help speed things up, I'm okay with it' way. An unsatisf

by justsee 13y ago

The issue is the TPP process. You largely continue to avoid this, addressing it upthread in an 'it will help speed things up, I'm okay with it' way. An unsatisfactory, superficial response to some very deep issues. The commendable 'issues resume' you present at the end of your response, up hard against your ringing endorsement of TPP is very incongruous. Seeing as the TPP works against all of those noble causes. Oh mysterious duplicity!

anigbrowl 13y ago
As I explained earlier, I haven't decided whether I support the TPP yet because I don't know what's in it, so I don't know where you're getting the idea of a'ringing endorsement.' What I'm defending is the idea that it can get negotiated and then offered for an up or down vote. I actually think this is a better approach for judging the proposal as a whole. Yes, it's less democratic, which is not an altogether bad thing in my view; it's faster; it forces an assessment of priorities, and makes it easier for multiple countries with different cultures and political systems to negotiate. Oh mysterious duplicity! I have a different and probably more cynical worldview than you do. Apparently you find this so impossible to imagine that you think I must be lying about something. I don't really care whether you find my views unsatisfactory or not, any more than you care for my approval.
- prirun 13y ago
  The problem with waiting until the text is final is that the final text, which might be thousands of pages, is presented on Monday morning and voted on Monday afternoon. It may have taken them 4 years to negotiate the details, because of extreme complexity, but you can bet they won't allow the public to mull it over and give feedback for an equal amount of time. The new "democratic" process in the US is for corporations to write law and Congress to rubber stamp it. They don't even read the shit they pass.

by justsee 13y ago

anigbrowl 13y ago

As I explained earlier, I haven't decided whether I support the TPP yet because I don't know what's in it, so I don't know where you're getting the idea of a'ringing endorsement.' What I'm defending is the idea that it can get negotiated and then offered for an up or down vote. I actually think this is a better approach for judging the proposal as a whole. Yes, it's less democratic, which is not an altogether bad thing in my view; it's faster; it forces an assessment of priorities, and makes it easier for multiple countries with different cultures and political systems to negotiate. Oh mysterious duplicity! I have a different and probably more cynical worldview than you do. Apparently you find this so impossible to imagine that you think I must be lying about something. I don't really care whether you find my views unsatisfactory or not, any more than you care for my approval.

prirun 13y ago
The problem with waiting until the text is final is that the final text, which might be thousands of pages, is presented on Monday morning and voted on Monday afternoon. It may have taken them 4 years to negotiate the details, because of extreme complexity, but you can bet they won't allow the public to mull it over and give feedback for an equal amount of time. The new "democratic" process in the US is for corporations to write law and Congress to rubber stamp it. They don't even read the shit they pass.