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The NY Times stopped using the word torture to describe what the US was doing because of the Bush Admin. The New York times supported the Iraq War and was the l

by wnevets 13y ago

The NY Times stopped using the word torture to describe what the US was doing because of the Bush Admin. The New York times supported the Iraq War and was the leading the charge for a war with Iran during Bush's second term.

smsm42 13y ago
Supporting certain action of the administration and being a mouthpiece for the administration is a very different thing. Do you think any media org that supports, for example, the killing of Bin Laden, which is commonly attributed to Obama administration, is an Obama mouthpiece? There were many people that supported Iraq War, from many political persuasions. Some regretted it, some didn't. It doesn't mean they all were Bush's mouthpieces, there is place for genuine agreement even in today's politics.
- wnevets 13y ago
  How do you characterize changing the language reporters are allowed to use in the paper to appease the Bush admin?
  - etherael 13y ago
    Doing their patriotic duty. ;)
  - smsm42 13y ago
    Israel just released 26 terrorists from jail about a week ago to appease Palestinian government. Does it mean the government of Israel is now an agent and mouthpiece of Hamas and PLO?
    - wnevets 13y ago
      The notion that Israel does anything to appease Palestinian is kinda funny.
      - smsm42 13y ago
        I don't see anything funny in it, but maybe your sense of humor is different. In any case, it is a fact - a quick Google search would produce ample confirmation that it did really happen if you doubt my words. In any case by changing the topic I assume you concede the initial point.
        wnevets 13y ago
        I asked you a straight forward question and you side stepped it with some ridicules notion that Israel is appeasing Palestine.
        smsm42 13y ago
        1. The word "ridicules" is a verb. You meant "ridiculous". 2. It is not the notion, it is a fact. Widely confirmed by independent sources which you can find by simple Google search or on any "current events" page in any major media outlet. 3. I brought it as an example that appeasing somebody and identifying with somebody is not the same. If you don't like this example, take example of Chamberlain appeasing Germans. I didn't use that because that has a high chance of taking discussion offtopic, but you managed to take it offtopic anyway. 4. The original point was that appeasing and being a mouthpiece is far from being the same. You still did not manage to bring any argument to the contrary. NYT published a lot of things harmful to Bush. It also published a lot of things useful to Bush. Thinking that the same newspaper that published the story of Stellar Wind was parroting Bush doesn't make any sense.
        wnevets 13y ago
        your lack of understanding of the world around you is frightening
donohoe 13y ago
Funny, in some of these Letters to the Editor, readers talk (and complain) about how the NYTimes takes "high moral ground" in decrying "torture". "The Finding: U.S. Engaged in Torture" http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/18/opinion/the-finding-us-engaged-in-torture.html http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/18/opinion/the-finding-us-eng... which refers to the Front Page story on April 16th that had headline: "U.S. Practiced Torture After 9/11, Nonpartisan Review Concludes," http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/16/world/us-practiced-torture-after-9-11-nonpartisan-review-concludes.html http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/16/world/us-practiced-torture... Keller, the executive editor during some of the Bush years, spoke as to why and when "torture" was and wasn't used. http://keller.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/16/the-t-words/ http://keller.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/16/the-t-words/ This is more informed then your shouts of "mouthpiece" and I hope it helps: "The word was freely deployed in editorials and Op-Ed opinions, but in the news pages we described the techniques as “brutal” – upgraded from “harsh.” When the word “torture” appeared, it was qualified by attribution (“according to…” or “widely denounced as…”). Hoyt, as the reader’s ombudsman, heard complaints from “some who think ‘brutal’ is just a timid euphemism for torture” and from readers on the other side “who think ‘brutal’ is too loaded.” The editors (I was one at the time) argued that what constituted torture was still a matter of debate, that this issue was not just linguistic but legal and had not yet been resolved by a court, and that the word was commonly applied to such a range of practices as to be imprecise. We contended that the best approach was to describe the techniques as fully as possible and let readers draw their own conclusions." === See also: "The Guantánamo Stain" (2013) http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/26/opinion/the-guantanamo-stain.html http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/26/opinion/the-guantanamo-sta... "It became the embodiment of his dangerous expansion of executive power and the lawless detentions, secret prisons and torture that went along with them. It is now also a reminder of Mr. Obama’s failure to close the prison as he promised when he took office, and of the malicious interference by Congress in any effort to justly try and punish the Guantánamo inmates." === "Sweeping Torture Under the Rug" http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/14/sweeping-torture-under-the-rug/ http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/14/sweeping-tort... "Meanwhile, in Washington, officials still won’t acknowledge Mr. Masri’s kidnapping and torture, which was just one example of President George W. Bush’s “extraordinary rendition program.”" === "Detainee Was Tortured, a Bush Official Confirms" http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/14/us/14gitmo.html http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/14/us/14gitmo.html "A senior Pentagon official in the Bush administration said that interrogators had tortured a Guantánamo detainee." === "'Moderate physical pressure' : The painful lesson Israel learned about torture" http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/01/opinion/01iht-edfelner_ed3_.html http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/01/opinion/01iht-edfelner_ed3... "As the Abu Ghraib torture scandal keeps unfolding, ..."

by wnevets 13y ago

smsm42 13y ago

Supporting certain action of the administration and being a mouthpiece for the administration is a very different thing. Do you think any media org that supports, for example, the killing of Bin Laden, which is commonly attributed to Obama administration, is an Obama mouthpiece? There were many people that supported Iraq War, from many political persuasions. Some regretted it, some didn't. It doesn't mean they all were Bush's mouthpieces, there is place for genuine agreement even in today's politics.

wnevets 13y ago
How do you characterize changing the language reporters are allowed to use in the paper to appease the Bush admin?
- etherael 13y ago
  Doing their patriotic duty. ;)
- smsm42 13y ago
  Israel just released 26 terrorists from jail about a week ago to appease Palestinian government. Does it mean the government of Israel is now an agent and mouthpiece of Hamas and PLO?
  - wnevets 13y ago
    The notion that Israel does anything to appease Palestinian is kinda funny.
    - smsm42 13y ago
      I don't see anything funny in it, but maybe your sense of humor is different. In any case, it is a fact - a quick Google search would produce ample confirmation that it did really happen if you doubt my words. In any case by changing the topic I assume you concede the initial point.
      - wnevets 13y ago
        I asked you a straight forward question and you side stepped it with some ridicules notion that Israel is appeasing Palestine.
        smsm42 13y ago
        1. The word "ridicules" is a verb. You meant "ridiculous". 2. It is not the notion, it is a fact. Widely confirmed by independent sources which you can find by simple Google search or on any "current events" page in any major media outlet. 3. I brought it as an example that appeasing somebody and identifying with somebody is not the same. If you don't like this example, take example of Chamberlain appeasing Germans. I didn't use that because that has a high chance of taking discussion offtopic, but you managed to take it offtopic anyway. 4. The original point was that appeasing and being a mouthpiece is far from being the same. You still did not manage to bring any argument to the contrary. NYT published a lot of things harmful to Bush. It also published a lot of things useful to Bush. Thinking that the same newspaper that published the story of Stellar Wind was parroting Bush doesn't make any sense.
        wnevets 13y ago
        your lack of understanding of the world around you is frightening

donohoe 13y ago

Funny, in some of these Letters to the Editor, readers talk (and complain) about how the NYTimes takes "high moral ground" in decrying "torture". "The Finding: U.S. Engaged in Torture" http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/18/opinion/the-finding-us-engaged-in-torture.html http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/18/opinion/the-finding-us-eng... which refers to the Front Page story on April 16th that had headline: "U.S. Practiced Torture After 9/11, Nonpartisan Review Concludes," http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/16/world/us-practiced-torture-after-9-11-nonpartisan-review-concludes.html http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/16/world/us-practiced-torture... Keller, the executive editor during some of the Bush years, spoke as to why and when "torture" was and wasn't used. http://keller.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/16/the-t-words/ http://keller.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/16/the-t-words/ This is more informed then your shouts of "mouthpiece" and I hope it helps: "The word was freely deployed in editorials and Op-Ed opinions, but in the news pages we described the techniques as “brutal” – upgraded from “harsh.” When the word “torture” appeared, it was qualified by attribution (“according to…” or “widely denounced as…”). Hoyt, as the reader’s ombudsman, heard complaints from “some who think ‘brutal’ is just a timid euphemism for torture” and from readers on the other side “who think ‘brutal’ is too loaded.” The editors (I was one at the time) argued that what constituted torture was still a matter of debate, that this issue was not just linguistic but legal and had not yet been resolved by a court, and that the word was commonly applied to such a range of practices as to be imprecise. We contended that the best approach was to describe the techniques as fully as possible and let readers draw their own conclusions." === See also: "The Guantánamo Stain" (2013) http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/26/opinion/the-guantanamo-stain.html http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/26/opinion/the-guantanamo-sta... "It became the embodiment of his dangerous expansion of executive power and the lawless detentions, secret prisons and torture that went along with them. It is now also a reminder of Mr. Obama’s failure to close the prison as he promised when he took office, and of the malicious interference by Congress in any effort to justly try and punish the Guantánamo inmates." === "Sweeping Torture Under the Rug" http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/14/sweeping-torture-under-the-rug/ http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/14/sweeping-tort... "Meanwhile, in Washington, officials still won’t acknowledge Mr. Masri’s kidnapping and torture, which was just one example of President George W. Bush’s “extraordinary rendition program.”" === "Detainee Was Tortured, a Bush Official Confirms" http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/14/us/14gitmo.html http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/14/us/14gitmo.html "A senior Pentagon official in the Bush administration said that interrogators had tortured a Guantánamo detainee." === "'Moderate physical pressure' : The painful lesson Israel learned about torture" http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/01/opinion/01iht-edfelner_ed3_.html http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/01/opinion/01iht-edfelner_ed3... "As the Abu Ghraib torture scandal keeps unfolding, ..."