5 ms·
> The moment a reader realizes that a résumé is more than say two or three pages, negative impressions flow and the reader becomes less inclined to give the doc
by makmanalp 13y ago
> The moment a reader realizes that a résumé is more than say two or three pages, negative impressions flow and the reader becomes less inclined to give the document their full attention.
Translation: "I am unable and unwilling to give something a fair judgement."
> Another explanation for multi-page résumés is the common use of CVs outside North America, as CVs are often much longer and more detailed than what US companies expect or desire
I wonder if the desires of companies and hiring managers are being conflated.
> When CV users in the US start using the more accepted and brief résumé format, the industry will be better off as a whole.
Really? Why? Better off how?
> CV formats often used by foreign developers are more likely to list minute details of each technical environment. This includes languages, operating systems, IDE’s, frameworks and libraries, app servers, databases, methodologies, and build tools, sometimes complete with version and release numbers. The sheer volume of this data can be quite cumbersome for contractors and consultants who work for several clients in a year, which is the norm for many new arrivals to the US. This information is rarely a major factor in interview assessments, wastes valuable space, and portrays the writer in a negative light due to a perceived inability to prioritize the minimal importance of this information.
So the pattern I'm seeing here is that hiring managers don't give a shit about your experience as long as the buzzwords match. We knew this already, but I was expecting a thoughtful essay, not a reiteration of this disguised as a proper argument. Of course version numbers, IDEs, etc is way too much, but a one liner is not enough to describe anything useful.
Anyway, I've mostly found that the best way to get hired is to bypass the HR gateway. Go through someone you know, or get introduced. Worst case, introduce yourself: report a bug, submit a pull request to their project, keep offering insightful feedback on their blog. If the team likes you, tough shit. They usually get to overrule anyone. And I've never seen an engineer bitch about having too much information on the resume. It saves me the effort of having to obtain that info during the interview and decide that you weren't a match in the first place. Oops.
Final insight to hiring people: If you are getting too many resume spam to wade through, raise the bar. Add a 10 minute code task. Add a secret keyword in the job description body for them to include in their e-mail, to make sure they read it. Hell, add a silly programmer filter like "send your resume to the base64 decoded version of this text: ....". As long as you don't make it too complicated, all of these things are a minor inconvenience to people who genuinely want to work with you. But they are a major inconvenience for resume spammers.
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edit:
Another point is that with the current hiring process, your resume has two vastly different audiences. HR people and engineers. As a result of this clash of interests, resumes fall in the awkward middle. By bypassing the HR process, you also have the opportunity to write a resume specifically catered towards engineers.
There is always the argument that a resume is a sales pitch, but who are you selling to? I've read tons of one pagers, coming away with nothing conclusive as to whether I should pursue or not. "Worked on implementing payments on an e-commerce site using JSP, JBoss, ..." So what? Were you by yourself or in a team? Did you use preexisting stuff or did you do it from scratch? How big was the site? How did launch go? What kind of process did you guys have? At what stage did you join? Did you lead the project?
If you've had more than 3-4 jobs, a page is not enough. I don't want a slick sales pitch, I want as many details as I can get.
- bane 13y ago> So the pattern I'm seeing here is that hiring managers don't give a shit about your experience as long as the buzzwords match. We knew this already, but I was expecting a thoughtful essay, not a reiteration of this disguised as a proper argument. Having waded through stacks of breathless resumes exactly like they're talking about, I have to agree with the article on this. A decent developer should be able to get by with whatever environment we put them in front of. Even if it's just notepad and an old version of Perl. Those kinds of very specific details can come out in the interview. What often happens with non-US persons is that they start to list every conceivable technology that consumed electrons in their office environment hoping one of them is interesting enough to get them a job. It doesn't, it usually gets their resume tossed because it looks like an identical list of enterprise software stacks from the last 300 resumes my recruiter gave me. > base64 decoded version of this tex Actually that's rather clever. Make them do some kind of basic, but hackerish task to submit. That way you filter for people with at least basic technical computer skills so you don't waste time considering them.
- Sae5waip 13y agoWould be nice if it was a task that could be solved faster by programming than by googling. https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=base64+online https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=base64+online
- makmanalp 13y agoRe: small task, it's kinda like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashcash http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashcash when you think about it. :)
- fecak 13y agoAuthor here. I'm perfectly willing to give something a fair judgment, and although I didn't include this in the article, I'm actually scheduled to speak with the person with the 23 bullet summary and 4 sentences on Google. The problem is that although I'm still willing to give a fair judgment, the candidate's inability to distill what is important from trivia will give me a negative impression. You're assuming that there is relative content in those additional pages, which there isn't. I can write "I am qualified for the job" 500 times on a sheet of paper, but if I require someone to read the last 499 I've done them a disservice. Regarding CVs vs a brief resume format, I think the industry will be better off because the use of CVs seems to negatively impact mostly foreign workers who are accustomed to using that format. I still read as much as necessary in order to evaluate a candidate, but I assure you that many hiring managers and recruiters do not. I agree that surpassing the HR hiring process is much more effective, and I even advocate that method specifically in an entire section of my ebook. The two audiences is a real issue as you mention, and having ATS systems scanning resumes is another issue and third audience for the resume to cater to.