5 ms·

Good. IE10 is awful and introduced weird regressions into canvas and event.detail. Canvas clipping regions are completely broken in IE10: http://jsfiddle.net/

Good. IE10 is awful and introduced weird regressions into canvas and event.detail. Canvas clipping regions are completely broken in IE10: http://jsfiddle.net/simonsarris/8nNnb/ http://jsfiddle.net/simonsarris/8nNnb/ Microsoft's reply was essentially "lol, next release" : https://connect.microsoft.com/IE/feedback/details/782736/canvas-clearrect-fails-with-non-rectangular-yet-simple-clipping-paths https://connect.microsoft.com/IE/feedback/details/782736/can... They're fine leaving it broken for IE10 for all time. Event.detail never resets when you move the mouse: http://jsfiddle.net/uDhwX/ http://jsfiddle.net/uDhwX/ In fact event.detail doesn't reset even after you've reloaded the page The IE team closed that one as won't fix back in June: http://connect.microsoft.com/IE/feedback/details/789773/ie-increments-event-detail-on-clicks-over-different-locations http://connect.microsoft.com/IE/feedback/details/789773/ie-i... Both of these are just fine in IE9. What's worse, these aren't the kind of things I can use feature detection to figure out. They're not missing features, they're features that worked in the last version that are broken in this one (IE10), that will remain broken in this one, and may be fixed in the future. So thanks for fixing one of those, IE11. Maybe you could get around to event.detail some time. ~~~ The biggest problem I have with IE is disjointed updates. They don't care enough to fix the one thing they need to fix. And don't tell me they're doing automatic updates now, they need to go back and fix all versions. Including on Windows XP. In 2009 the IE team released IE8 on Windows XP. Some time before before that I set my parents up with Chrome 1. Do you know what they're using almost 5 years later? Chrome 30. And they have no idea. And we're all the better for it. Do you know what they would be using if it were not for Chrome? It's not IE11. Or 10, or 9. Nevermind automatic updating, plain old updating isn't an option for my parents.

itsboring 13y ago
IE11 has crazy regressions in keyframe animations and transitions. Stuff that worked fine in IE10 and every other browser on the planet now requires voodoo like using settimeout to delay for a magical number of ms before setting certain style properties.
- gisenberg 13y ago
  IE11 has been, in my experience, the largest source of awful, browser-specific hackery since the Galaxy S2 or Blackberry mobile browsers. You might think that, if you've worked with IE10, it's going to be smooth sailing. It's not. IE11 is a regression in comparison. The browser quirks aren't things like "Oh, you need a vendor prefix here." They are things like, "no matter what, keyframe animations will never work at all in the presence of the Facebook API, and transition animations will work sometimes (but not always!) because reasons, and sometimes (but not always!) animated elements will reset back to their original position after the animation completes." Because of these browser-specific quirks, you'll be spending a fair amount of time in the IE11 developer tools, which are very nearly unchanged since interns wrote them in IE7. Worse, they frequently crash and take the browser down with it. Or, they get out of sync with the browser, and "Inspect Element" stops working until you restart the browser. You'll be restarting IE and staring at the "Searching for solutions..." dialog quite a bit. When the tools DO work, you'll find they've added a bunch of new stuff like the "UI Responsiveness Wizard", but that's a poor consolation prize for losing the great debugging features of other browsers, like "Break on attribute modification" and "stabililty." And, after spending days poring through JS, trying to find any sort of IE11-specific bug or behavior on these complex sites that work in very nearly every other browser, including IE10 and an array of mobile browsers going back to Android 2, you'll find that adding random timeouts will start fixing some of these weird behaviors. I've been mired in IE11 support for the past several months. It's been a nightmare.
  - SchizoDuckie 13y ago
    Oh my lord. Thanks for breaking the fragile new trust I had in Microsoft's improved embracing of the web.. They actually made it so that you now have to test and optimize for every IE version out there.
    - gisenberg 13y ago
      The IE vision of embracing the web is being incredibly dogmatic about "you shouldn't have to do anything special for IE" while simultaneously introducing a slew of IE-specific awful.
smacktoward 13y ago
> The biggest problem I have with IE is disjointed updates. They don't care enough to fix the one thing they need to fix. And don't tell me they're doing automatic updates now, they need to go back and fix all versions. Including on Windows XP. Their claim is that it's impossible to provide modern IE for older versions of Windows, because IE is so deeply tied into the OS it requires features and libraries that are intimately tied to newer versions and don't/can't exist on (say) XP. (Not saying I endorse that as a reasonable position, just explaining why they do things the way they do.)
- bcoates 13y ago
  I thought that the claim was the XP and Vista are no longer supported versions and nobody need write new software for them.
  - yuhong 13y ago
    No longer in mainstream support.
- wslh 13y ago
  Their claim is that it's impossible to provide modern IE for older versions of Windows, because IE is so deeply tied into the OS it requires features and libraries that are intimately tied to newer versions and don't/can't exist on (say) XP. One of the core reasons is that new IEs uses security support from the OS, like low privileges, that didn't exist in old Windows OSES.
- ryankshaw 13y ago
  So why not un-tie it from the OS? If Chrome, FF, & Safari can do all that they do without deep os integration, why not IE? someone said "One of the core reasons is that new IEs uses security support from the OS, like low privileges, that didn't exist in old Windows OSES" well I don't believe IE11 is any more secure than chrome or firefox, and they don't need that so why does IE? I know the business model used to be "release a new version of IE, make compatible for only the new version of windows, force everyone to buy a new windows license." and that worked back when there was no competition. but trying to do that in todays market means most savvy users will just use a browser that updates without needing an OS update (or any user action, for that matter). Really, why doesn't IE just start doing an iterative auto-release cycle like ff or chrome?
pippy 13y ago
I'd prefer to see MSIE market share continue to decline to less than 20%. The would warrant not having to make any specific browser hacks to get it to work.
bmm6o 13y ago
That's part of what's frustrating about the larger move away from version sniffing (e.g. jQuery no longer supporting it) and IE playing games with its User Agent string. I'm in favor of it in theory, but in practice there are a handful of things where you simply need to know the browser vendor or version in order to provide a usable page.
yuhong 13y ago
they need to go back and fix all versions. Including on Windows XP. Closest that I have is this but that is because it turned to be a security issue: http://yuhongbao.blogspot.ca/2013/07/how-i-found-cve-2013-1310.html http://yuhongbao.blogspot.ca/2013/07/how-i-found-cve-2013-13...

itsboring 13y ago

IE11 has crazy regressions in keyframe animations and transitions. Stuff that worked fine in IE10 and every other browser on the planet now requires voodoo like using settimeout to delay for a magical number of ms before setting certain style properties.

gisenberg 13y ago
IE11 has been, in my experience, the largest source of awful, browser-specific hackery since the Galaxy S2 or Blackberry mobile browsers. You might think that, if you've worked with IE10, it's going to be smooth sailing. It's not. IE11 is a regression in comparison. The browser quirks aren't things like "Oh, you need a vendor prefix here." They are things like, "no matter what, keyframe animations will never work at all in the presence of the Facebook API, and transition animations will work sometimes (but not always!) because reasons, and sometimes (but not always!) animated elements will reset back to their original position after the animation completes." Because of these browser-specific quirks, you'll be spending a fair amount of time in the IE11 developer tools, which are very nearly unchanged since interns wrote them in IE7. Worse, they frequently crash and take the browser down with it. Or, they get out of sync with the browser, and "Inspect Element" stops working until you restart the browser. You'll be restarting IE and staring at the "Searching for solutions..." dialog quite a bit. When the tools DO work, you'll find they've added a bunch of new stuff like the "UI Responsiveness Wizard", but that's a poor consolation prize for losing the great debugging features of other browsers, like "Break on attribute modification" and "stabililty." And, after spending days poring through JS, trying to find any sort of IE11-specific bug or behavior on these complex sites that work in very nearly every other browser, including IE10 and an array of mobile browsers going back to Android 2, you'll find that adding random timeouts will start fixing some of these weird behaviors. I've been mired in IE11 support for the past several months. It's been a nightmare.
- SchizoDuckie 13y ago
  Oh my lord. Thanks for breaking the fragile new trust I had in Microsoft's improved embracing of the web.. They actually made it so that you now have to test and optimize for every IE version out there.
  - gisenberg 13y ago
    The IE vision of embracing the web is being incredibly dogmatic about "you shouldn't have to do anything special for IE" while simultaneously introducing a slew of IE-specific awful.

smacktoward 13y ago

> The biggest problem I have with IE is disjointed updates. They don't care enough to fix the one thing they need to fix. And don't tell me they're doing automatic updates now, they need to go back and fix all versions. Including on Windows XP. Their claim is that it's impossible to provide modern IE for older versions of Windows, because IE is so deeply tied into the OS it requires features and libraries that are intimately tied to newer versions and don't/can't exist on (say) XP. (Not saying I endorse that as a reasonable position, just explaining why they do things the way they do.)

bcoates 13y ago
I thought that the claim was the XP and Vista are no longer supported versions and nobody need write new software for them.
- yuhong 13y ago
  No longer in mainstream support.
wslh 13y ago
Their claim is that it's impossible to provide modern IE for older versions of Windows, because IE is so deeply tied into the OS it requires features and libraries that are intimately tied to newer versions and don't/can't exist on (say) XP. One of the core reasons is that new IEs uses security support from the OS, like low privileges, that didn't exist in old Windows OSES.
ryankshaw 13y ago
So why not un-tie it from the OS? If Chrome, FF, & Safari can do all that they do without deep os integration, why not IE? someone said "One of the core reasons is that new IEs uses security support from the OS, like low privileges, that didn't exist in old Windows OSES" well I don't believe IE11 is any more secure than chrome or firefox, and they don't need that so why does IE? I know the business model used to be "release a new version of IE, make compatible for only the new version of windows, force everyone to buy a new windows license." and that worked back when there was no competition. but trying to do that in todays market means most savvy users will just use a browser that updates without needing an OS update (or any user action, for that matter). Really, why doesn't IE just start doing an iterative auto-release cycle like ff or chrome?

pippy 13y ago

I'd prefer to see MSIE market share continue to decline to less than 20%. The would warrant not having to make any specific browser hacks to get it to work.

bmm6o 13y ago

That's part of what's frustrating about the larger move away from version sniffing (e.g. jQuery no longer supporting it) and IE playing games with its User Agent string. I'm in favor of it in theory, but in practice there are a handful of things where you simply need to know the browser vendor or version in order to provide a usable page.

yuhong 13y ago

they need to go back and fix all versions. Including on Windows XP. Closest that I have is this but that is because it turned to be a security issue: http://yuhongbao.blogspot.ca/2013/07/how-i-found-cve-2013-1310.html http://yuhongbao.blogspot.ca/2013/07/how-i-found-cve-2013-13...