7 ms·

If you are discussing this topic, you might consider referring to the legislation as the "Affordable Health Care Act", which I believe is the title on the actua

by japhyr 13y ago

If you are discussing this topic, you might consider referring to the legislation as the "Affordable Health Care Act", which I believe is the title on the actual legislation. Calling it "Obamacare" triggers an overly emotional response from people on both side of this issue. Ask people if they want universal affordable health care, and most people will discuss the issue. Ask people if they want Obamacare, and you instantly raise all sorts of issues that have nothing to do with health care. Edit: I agree with many of the responses here as well. The actual name, which I believe has ten titled parts [0], is a bit of marketing copy as well. But at least it's marketing copy that relates to the substance of the act. Calling it Obamacare makes it personal, and this is about much more than Obama taking care of all of us. I'd love to see a neutral name for the legislation itself. I am starting to call it "the current health care legislation". [0] - http://www.hhs.gov/healthcare/rights/law/ http://www.hhs.gov/healthcare/rights/law/

natmaster 13y ago
And the Patriot Act is very Patriotic!
- fsckin 13y ago
  Some would argue that it's too patriotic.
- mistakenot 13y ago
  Whatever. But it isn't called Bushoppression by anyone, it is referred to by its actual name.
  - natmaster 13y ago
    Noone calls Obamacare Obamasux or something stupid like the name you came up with. A more apt analogy would be Bushtactics.
- awj 13y ago
  ...what does that have to do with anything? It's the actual name of the act. Making up a new name for something to signal your disapproval is the fastest way I can think of to indicate you aren't capable of discussion.
ajross 13y ago
It's the "Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act", or ACA (oddly never PPACA in real usage that I've seen, though I see wikipedia lists that acronym).
ctdonath 13y ago
I can't refer to the legislation by its name because I consider its name disingenuous. A rose by any other name may smell as sweet, but calling dung a rose doesn't make it smell any better. Words mean things; "affordable" the act isn't. The legislation itself raises all sorts of issues that have nothing to do with health care. ETA: "Obamacare" is used because it's a catchy name which is both quite descriptive (Obama pushed this healthcare law thru, so he owns it) and is not inherently insulting (like "Bushoppression" or "Obamasux" mentioned elsewhere in this thread). Use of this popular nickname causes a frenzy because of its subject, not its inherent phrasing - it is not an ad-hominem attack.
- skwirl 13y ago
  What do you call the PATRIOT act?
  - ctdonath 13y ago
    Treason.
    - skwirl 13y ago
      So when it comes up for renewal, you go around saying "I hope they don't renew treason this year." That use of language must make communication somewhat difficult.
- Permit 13y ago
  Please. We call the "Patriot Act" the "Patriot Act". We called SOPA by its name despite disagreeing that it would "Stop Online Piracy".
  - dragonwriter 13y ago
    Its not "the Patriot Act". Its "the USA PATRIOT Act". And USA PATRIOT is not just a ridiculous emotional appeal embedded into a name, its also an acronym for "Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism".
Uhhrrr 13y ago
This is putting lipstick on a pig. The act makes purchasing a plan mandatory, and constrains the buying options. Unsurprisingly, the ensuing decrease of supply and increase in demand is making health plans more expensive for a lot of people. So, "Obamacare" might be more accurate.
- undoware 13y ago
  Think about what you're asking for by implication. Constraint-free purchase of health insurance would mean that I could sell you health insurance that would 'insure' that you could only be doctored by me, on my yoga mat, with a chainsaw. Someone less principled than me would have the same idea --- or one like it --- and sell a billion innocent souls a false comfort and a dangerous service. So someone would. Like someone has already sold those same people fake food that's killing them. Do you like alive citizens, or dead ones? The utopia you seek may be for the machines and the undertakers. And the undertakertrons.
  - viggity 13y ago
    give me a fucking break. people (including lots of loyal democrats) are getting their plans cancelled because their plans don't cover things they'll never need. Are you 60 years old, childless and single? Does your existing plan cover pediatric dental? No? PLAN CANCELLED. http://www.propublica.org/article/answered-why-two-obama-loyalists-lost-their-health-policies http://www.propublica.org/article/answered-why-two-obama-loy... My brother is a healthy, single, childless young college student who has a cheap, catastrophic plan to insure (aka share risk) for a major accident or major ailment (cancer, etc). He won't get to keep it after Dec 31st. Instead he'll have to pay a dramatically larger sum to offset risks that he doesn't have.
    - mahranch 13y ago
      But now your brother won't be dropped when he does fall ill or get cancer. That was a common tactic among insurers. You didn't dot an I correctly on one of your forms? Dropped. And now that you're dropped, good luck finding another insurer with your "pre-existing condition". Unless your brother is immortal, he will eventually fall ill or suffer an accident. Such is the nature of life. Some people live long & healthy lives, others get cancer at 25. You simply cannot know the future. Shared risk, in the greater scheme of things, is preferable to the alternatives.
jack-r-abbit 13y ago
But the name is a joke. I take offense to it labeling "health care" as being "affordable." It does nothing to change the cost of health care. It still costs the same. But for a lot of people, someone else will be paying for it.
praxeologist 13y ago
>universal affordable health care I'm not so sure about the affordable part. Maybe all I see is people posting letters about their rates going up though. What is the argument against that from people who still support this legislation? Is it denied that prices have gone up in general or accepted and justified because of increased benefits on the plans?
- darkandbrooding 13y ago
  If all you see are reports about people's rates going up, then you are in a filter bubble - just like everyone else who consumes a majority of their news through personalized online sources. There are people in neighboring filter bubbles whose ACA-related stories are almost entirely about people saving money because of the new exchanges.
  - beauzero 13y ago
    Please post links with people saving money. I have yet to see one that was genuine. I have seen actual evidence of people getting coverage that could not before.
    - mahranch 13y ago
      A search on google for the term "how obamacare has helped people" provides over 24 million results. Here are couple reports you can read at your leisure: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/six-stories-of-obamacare-already-making-a-difference-20131016 http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/six-stories-of-oba... http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/10/ted-cruz-obamacare-helps-texas http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/10/ted-cruz-obamaca... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/05/i-am-obamacare-_n_4046470.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/05/i-am-obamacare-_n_4...
    - gnaritas 13y ago
      > I have yet to see one that was genuine. Because you don't want to, it's as simple as that. If you were actually looking there's plenty of stories to find.
snowwrestler 13y ago
I think that ship sailed when the President himself started calling it Obamacare. It's a controversial topic on its substance; the name does not change that either way.
- japhyr 13y ago
  The name actually does affect people's opinion on the subject. I don't fully trust this source yet [0], but I do trust that the name affects people's opinions. [0] - http://www.policymic.com/articles/65625/why-americans-are-okay-with-the-affordable-care-act-but-despise-obamacare http://www.policymic.com/articles/65625/why-americans-are-ok...
lylejohnson 13y ago
Quoting from the Wikipedia article [1] on the same: President Obama endorsed the nickname, saying, "I have no problem with people saying Obama cares. I do care."[2] Because of the number of "Obamacare" search engine queries, the Department of Health and Human Services purchased Google advertisements, triggered by the term, to direct people to the official HHS site.[3] In March 2012, the Obama reelection campaign embraced the term "Obamacare", urging Obama's supporters to post Twitter messages that begin, "I like #Obamacare because...".[4] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordab... [2] http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20092578-503544.html http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20092578-503544.html [3] http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1210/HHS_buys_ObamaCare.html http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1210/HHS_buys_ObamaCa... [4] http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/217893-obama-reelection-campaign-urges-supporters-to-say-im-for-obamacare http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/217893-obam...
japhyr 13y ago
I agree with many of the responses here as well. The actual name, which I believe has tent titled parts [0], is a bit of marketing copy as well. But at least it's marketing copy that relates to the substance of the act. Calling it Obamacare makes it personal, and this is about much more than Obama taking care of all of us. I'd love to see a neutral name for the legislation itself. I am starting to call it "the current health care legislation". [0] - http://www.hhs.gov/healthcare/rights/law/ http://www.hhs.gov/healthcare/rights/law/ Edit: copying this as an edit to my first post, but leaving this here in case anyone replies.
davvolun 13y ago
I disagree. The name 'obamacare' began as an attack on the legislation, but the other side has taken over the term as in 'Obama cares', so in some circles it's derogatory, in some it's posiive, but I think both sides accept and are relatively happy with the term--for better or worse.

by japhyr 13y ago

natmaster 13y ago

And the Patriot Act is very Patriotic!

fsckin 13y ago
Some would argue that it's too patriotic.
mistakenot 13y ago
Whatever. But it isn't called Bushoppression by anyone, it is referred to by its actual name.
- natmaster 13y ago
  Noone calls Obamacare Obamasux or something stupid like the name you came up with. A more apt analogy would be Bushtactics.
awj 13y ago
...what does that have to do with anything? It's the actual name of the act. Making up a new name for something to signal your disapproval is the fastest way I can think of to indicate you aren't capable of discussion.

ajross 13y ago

It's the "Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act", or ACA (oddly never PPACA in real usage that I've seen, though I see wikipedia lists that acronym).

ctdonath 13y ago

I can't refer to the legislation by its name because I consider its name disingenuous. A rose by any other name may smell as sweet, but calling dung a rose doesn't make it smell any better. Words mean things; "affordable" the act isn't. The legislation itself raises all sorts of issues that have nothing to do with health care. ETA: "Obamacare" is used because it's a catchy name which is both quite descriptive (Obama pushed this healthcare law thru, so he owns it) and is not inherently insulting (like "Bushoppression" or "Obamasux" mentioned elsewhere in this thread). Use of this popular nickname causes a frenzy because of its subject, not its inherent phrasing - it is not an ad-hominem attack.

skwirl 13y ago
What do you call the PATRIOT act?
- ctdonath 13y ago
  Treason.
  - skwirl 13y ago
    So when it comes up for renewal, you go around saying "I hope they don't renew treason this year." That use of language must make communication somewhat difficult.
Permit 13y ago
Please. We call the "Patriot Act" the "Patriot Act". We called SOPA by its name despite disagreeing that it would "Stop Online Piracy".
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  Its not "the Patriot Act". Its "the USA PATRIOT Act". And USA PATRIOT is not just a ridiculous emotional appeal embedded into a name, its also an acronym for "Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism".

Uhhrrr 13y ago

This is putting lipstick on a pig. The act makes purchasing a plan mandatory, and constrains the buying options. Unsurprisingly, the ensuing decrease of supply and increase in demand is making health plans more expensive for a lot of people. So, "Obamacare" might be more accurate.

undoware 13y ago
Think about what you're asking for by implication. Constraint-free purchase of health insurance would mean that I could sell you health insurance that would 'insure' that you could only be doctored by me, on my yoga mat, with a chainsaw. Someone less principled than me would have the same idea --- or one like it --- and sell a billion innocent souls a false comfort and a dangerous service. So someone would. Like someone has already sold those same people fake food that's killing them. Do you like alive citizens, or dead ones? The utopia you seek may be for the machines and the undertakers. And the undertakertrons.
- viggity 13y ago
  give me a fucking break. people (including lots of loyal democrats) are getting their plans cancelled because their plans don't cover things they'll never need. Are you 60 years old, childless and single? Does your existing plan cover pediatric dental? No? PLAN CANCELLED. http://www.propublica.org/article/answered-why-two-obama-loyalists-lost-their-health-policies http://www.propublica.org/article/answered-why-two-obama-loy... My brother is a healthy, single, childless young college student who has a cheap, catastrophic plan to insure (aka share risk) for a major accident or major ailment (cancer, etc). He won't get to keep it after Dec 31st. Instead he'll have to pay a dramatically larger sum to offset risks that he doesn't have.
  - mahranch 13y ago
    But now your brother won't be dropped when he does fall ill or get cancer. That was a common tactic among insurers. You didn't dot an I correctly on one of your forms? Dropped. And now that you're dropped, good luck finding another insurer with your "pre-existing condition". Unless your brother is immortal, he will eventually fall ill or suffer an accident. Such is the nature of life. Some people live long & healthy lives, others get cancer at 25. You simply cannot know the future. Shared risk, in the greater scheme of things, is preferable to the alternatives.

jack-r-abbit 13y ago

But the name is a joke. I take offense to it labeling "health care" as being "affordable." It does nothing to change the cost of health care. It still costs the same. But for a lot of people, someone else will be paying for it.

praxeologist 13y ago

>universal affordable health care I'm not so sure about the affordable part. Maybe all I see is people posting letters about their rates going up though. What is the argument against that from people who still support this legislation? Is it denied that prices have gone up in general or accepted and justified because of increased benefits on the plans?

darkandbrooding 13y ago
If all you see are reports about people's rates going up, then you are in a filter bubble - just like everyone else who consumes a majority of their news through personalized online sources. There are people in neighboring filter bubbles whose ACA-related stories are almost entirely about people saving money because of the new exchanges.
- beauzero 13y ago
  Please post links with people saving money. I have yet to see one that was genuine. I have seen actual evidence of people getting coverage that could not before.
  - mahranch 13y ago
    A search on google for the term "how obamacare has helped people" provides over 24 million results. Here are couple reports you can read at your leisure: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/six-stories-of-obamacare-already-making-a-difference-20131016 http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/six-stories-of-oba... http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/10/ted-cruz-obamacare-helps-texas http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/10/ted-cruz-obamaca... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/05/i-am-obamacare-_n_4046470.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/05/i-am-obamacare-_n_4...
  - gnaritas 13y ago
    > I have yet to see one that was genuine. Because you don't want to, it's as simple as that. If you were actually looking there's plenty of stories to find.

snowwrestler 13y ago

I think that ship sailed when the President himself started calling it Obamacare. It's a controversial topic on its substance; the name does not change that either way.

japhyr 13y ago
The name actually does affect people's opinion on the subject. I don't fully trust this source yet [0], but I do trust that the name affects people's opinions. [0] - http://www.policymic.com/articles/65625/why-americans-are-okay-with-the-affordable-care-act-but-despise-obamacare http://www.policymic.com/articles/65625/why-americans-are-ok...

lylejohnson 13y ago

Quoting from the Wikipedia article [1] on the same: President Obama endorsed the nickname, saying, "I have no problem with people saying Obama cares. I do care."[2] Because of the number of "Obamacare" search engine queries, the Department of Health and Human Services purchased Google advertisements, triggered by the term, to direct people to the official HHS site.[3] In March 2012, the Obama reelection campaign embraced the term "Obamacare", urging Obama's supporters to post Twitter messages that begin, "I like #Obamacare because...".[4] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordab... [2] http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20092578-503544.html http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20092578-503544.html [3] http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1210/HHS_buys_ObamaCare.html http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1210/HHS_buys_ObamaCa... [4] http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/217893-obama-reelection-campaign-urges-supporters-to-say-im-for-obamacare http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/217893-obam...

japhyr 13y ago

I agree with many of the responses here as well. The actual name, which I believe has tent titled parts [0], is a bit of marketing copy as well. But at least it's marketing copy that relates to the substance of the act. Calling it Obamacare makes it personal, and this is about much more than Obama taking care of all of us. I'd love to see a neutral name for the legislation itself. I am starting to call it "the current health care legislation". [0] - http://www.hhs.gov/healthcare/rights/law/ http://www.hhs.gov/healthcare/rights/law/ Edit: copying this as an edit to my first post, but leaving this here in case anyone replies.

davvolun 13y ago

I disagree. The name 'obamacare' began as an attack on the legislation, but the other side has taken over the term as in 'Obama cares', so in some circles it's derogatory, in some it's posiive, but I think both sides accept and are relatively happy with the term--for better or worse.