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Let me second this sentiment: YAY! My stomach dropped when I heard the news. I was so relieved to see that archive.org still loads, and to hear that there was

Let me second this sentiment: YAY! My stomach dropped when I heard the news. I was so relieved to see that archive.org still loads, and to hear that there was no data loss. It's become a ridiculously irreplaceable tool in my daily workflow. You found an interesting tutorial/article/paper written in 1995 but it fails to load when you follow the URL? Internet archive that shiz. An author has edited his webpage, and you're curious what it used to look like? Internet archive that shiz. Have a PDF link, but it's not loading? Check the archive. More often than not, it will load. If I remember correctly, I once recovered a ~1MB zip file from there as well. The zip file had disappeared from the normal web, but thankfully archive had snagged it. Maybe it was a PDF though. It seems impossible for the internet archive to persist forever... But it also seems about as valuable as the Library of Alexandria was in its day. Or rather, future historians will find it as valuable. So I hope we can get triple redundancy for it.

zz1 13y ago
Let me second this sentiment: NO! Just like you, when I first read about it, I was worried, but then I hoped something serious had happened. Why? Well, I like the Internet Archive like any other of us here does, but I am worried about his model: centralization. This time nothing happend, fine, but something actually can happen, someday. I just think that the "Better shut it down, NOW!" theory[0] also applies to the Internet Archive, and I hope I that one day I'll see a new one, federative and distributed. [0]: https://torrentfreak.com/shut-down-the-pirate-bay-founder-says-130708/ https://torrentfreak.com/shut-down-the-pirate-bay-founder-sa...
- sillysaurus2 13y ago
  ... would you say the same about the Library of Alexandria? What would you have suggested they do? Not kept a library? You should play some poker. It'll give a healthy respect for how much odds can affect outcomes. Shocking situations will happen, but half the time you'll be the one doing the shocking. Often you can win with just a pair of 8's. Based on your attitude, it seems like you'd always choose to fold if you were only holding 8 8, but in reality it's sometimes worth it to call. Your expected value by not playing at all, though, is zero. Meaning you won't lose, but you won't win either. This only makes sense when you're satisfied with your environment as it exists today. I wouldn't be satisfied without the internet archive. It serves a vital function. They may be gambling against natural disasters, but you know what? They're still winning. And by choosing to play, they've improved our world a bit. We should be grateful, not scornful.
  - zz1 13y ago
    You surely don't see my point. Read the link? Thought about the difference between books (paper) and data (bits)? Also the example you chose shows the problem with centralization. Never said "better off without the Internet Archive" but "I'd be happier with an improved one, but the existence of the present one puts everybody in a comfort zone".
    - JohnHaugeland 13y ago
      There's a lot more to it than the technical issue. Humans have to do the work. Putting it on a warez distribution network doesn't get the scanning done, etc.
      - zz1 13y ago
        Why should one exclude the other? I talk about "improvements", not a random chosen word. Also I scanned a lot of books myself, and scanners can easily go trivial over the next decade. http://www.diybookscanner.org/ http://www.diybookscanner.org/ http://diybookscanner.eu/ http://diybookscanner.eu/ And humans may even be not that necessary anymore http://www.lib.umich.edu/events/automatic-book-scanning-designing-linear-book-scanner-google http://www.lib.umich.edu/events/automatic-book-scanning-desi...
        JohnHaugeland 13y ago
        I'm not saying anything needs to be excluded. However, there is a human tragedy here, for people who have done good work for us, and we want to help out. If you don't want to, that's your prerogative. I'm glad that you've scanned books and released them. Maybe scanners will become trivial; you might be right. They aren't there yet, though, and I feel like I owe these people a debt, to help. I'm not telling you what to do or think. I'm just answering why I think there's more to the issue than that there could be a centralized storage, and that in the future maybe it gets easier to do. Sometimes when there's a fire you just put some money in the hat to help, buddy. It's more about compassion than anything. Thanks for hearing me out.

zz1 13y ago

Let me second this sentiment: NO! Just like you, when I first read about it, I was worried, but then I hoped something serious had happened. Why? Well, I like the Internet Archive like any other of us here does, but I am worried about his model: centralization. This time nothing happend, fine, but something actually can happen, someday. I just think that the "Better shut it down, NOW!" theory[0] also applies to the Internet Archive, and I hope I that one day I'll see a new one, federative and distributed. [0]: https://torrentfreak.com/shut-down-the-pirate-bay-founder-says-130708/ https://torrentfreak.com/shut-down-the-pirate-bay-founder-sa...

sillysaurus2 13y ago
... would you say the same about the Library of Alexandria? What would you have suggested they do? Not kept a library? You should play some poker. It'll give a healthy respect for how much odds can affect outcomes. Shocking situations will happen, but half the time you'll be the one doing the shocking. Often you can win with just a pair of 8's. Based on your attitude, it seems like you'd always choose to fold if you were only holding 8 8, but in reality it's sometimes worth it to call. Your expected value by not playing at all, though, is zero. Meaning you won't lose, but you won't win either. This only makes sense when you're satisfied with your environment as it exists today. I wouldn't be satisfied without the internet archive. It serves a vital function. They may be gambling against natural disasters, but you know what? They're still winning. And by choosing to play, they've improved our world a bit. We should be grateful, not scornful.
- zz1 13y ago
  You surely don't see my point. Read the link? Thought about the difference between books (paper) and data (bits)? Also the example you chose shows the problem with centralization. Never said "better off without the Internet Archive" but "I'd be happier with an improved one, but the existence of the present one puts everybody in a comfort zone".
  - JohnHaugeland 13y ago
    There's a lot more to it than the technical issue. Humans have to do the work. Putting it on a warez distribution network doesn't get the scanning done, etc.
    - zz1 13y ago
      Why should one exclude the other? I talk about "improvements", not a random chosen word. Also I scanned a lot of books myself, and scanners can easily go trivial over the next decade. http://www.diybookscanner.org/ http://www.diybookscanner.org/ http://diybookscanner.eu/ http://diybookscanner.eu/ And humans may even be not that necessary anymore http://www.lib.umich.edu/events/automatic-book-scanning-designing-linear-book-scanner-google http://www.lib.umich.edu/events/automatic-book-scanning-desi...
      - JohnHaugeland 13y ago
        I'm not saying anything needs to be excluded. However, there is a human tragedy here, for people who have done good work for us, and we want to help out. If you don't want to, that's your prerogative. I'm glad that you've scanned books and released them. Maybe scanners will become trivial; you might be right. They aren't there yet, though, and I feel like I owe these people a debt, to help. I'm not telling you what to do or think. I'm just answering why I think there's more to the issue than that there could be a centralized storage, and that in the future maybe it gets easier to do. Sometimes when there's a fire you just put some money in the hat to help, buddy. It's more about compassion than anything. Thanks for hearing me out.