5 ms·

The Raspberry Pi Becomes a Form Factor

53 points by noonespecial 13y ago

noonespecial 13y ago
I'm glad in a way that this is happening. Arduin-ification is an important step towards ubiquity and 3rd party compatible addons of all kinds. OTOH, it really is a terrible form factor if you think about it. It's ports are spread across every edge and surface and even at that, the USB is offset on its edge just to make it interesting.
- ajross 13y ago
  Honestly, I'm not sure that makes sense to me. Your criteria for "good form factor" seem to presuppose that the board is going to go into some kind of standard enclosure. That's not the way these are being deployed -- they're going in weird custom boxes (or costumes, or stuffed animals...) with a bunch of other junk. Making the board physically larger just to get all the connectors on the same edge is going to be a net inconvenience for lots of the target market. Obviously for any one device there's going to be a better form factor. But that's not what the Pi is for.
  - zokier 13y ago
    I think you got it entirely backwards. If there was some standard enclosure then nobody would care where the connectors were. But exactly because it ends up in all sorts diy projects and enclosures, the crazyish design makes it bad because it is unnecessarily difficult to design around.
- adestefan 13y ago
  Unfortunately. Arduino-ification means that shields continue in the world of non-standard header pitch size. And as you pointed out this is once again just making a terrible "standard."
hengheng 13y ago
Speaking of form factors, I'm really looking forward for a widely-accepted form factor for living room electronics. Rarely any devices still require 440mm of width, and thus all consoles, set top boxes, sat receivers, small HTPCs and many stereo amps invent their own. Along with a huge rat's nest of cabling, this just looks immature. I'm actually excited for stereo amps, or other home entertainment gadgets, in raspberry pi format.
- lttlrck 13y ago
  It's to the manufacturers advantage to make their equipment aesthetically and ergonomically incompatible with their competitors. Hide them away.
- liotier 13y ago
  Stereo amps in Raspberry Pi format ? Even with the latest technology, an amplifier still require a large and heavy power supply and a no less large and heavy radiator for the big transistors...
  - atwebb 13y ago
    Perhaps they meant a DAC or headphone amp? They aren't Pi small but some get fairly small and a select few higher end ones can drive extremely efficient speakers, but that's a bit of a stretch.
  - moron4hire 13y ago
    Depends on the output level you want. Honestly, I don't need the full output of my home stereo for things like board game parties in the yard. A buddy of mine makes battery-powered amplifier-and-speaker combos into ersatz book boxes. It's more than enough to plug a phone into and play some MP3s on a picnic. There is a pretty big market for all kinds of levels of devices.
  - hengheng 13y ago
    I was thinking of the Pro-Ject Stereo Box, which is 2x30W with some quite excellent sound up to its maximum power. But I'll admit there are smaller things sitting on my living room altar.
aray 13y ago
Awesome! This chip is the i.MX 6 Quad that's going into bunnie's open source "Novena" laptop[1] I've been using the freescale development platform for the chip[2] (SABRE Lite) to try to follow along with Novena's progress, but my biggest complaint is that it's too large and oddly shaped to carry around every day. With this formfactor, I can just put it in a raspberry pi case, and throw it in a bag without worrying about it getting smashed. [1] http://www.kosagi.com/w/index.php?title=Novena_Main_Page%E2%80%8E http://www.kosagi.com/w/index.php?title=Novena_Main_Page%E2%... [2] http://www.element14.com/community/community/knode/single-board_computers/sabrelite http://www.element14.com/community/community/knode/single-bo... Edit: looks like it's not for sale, but hackaday mentions they might if there's enough interest.
malexw 13y ago
It has hardly become a form factor. This is one company that has designed one board (which they aren't even selling!) that has the same layout as the Pi. Calling it a new form factor seems like its jumping the gun a bit.
snarfy 13y ago
Why would anyone clone the Raspberry Pi's form factor? Why would you ever want connectors on all four sides? Of all the things to clone on the Raspberry Pi, the form factor shouldn't be one of them.
dade_ 13y ago
Oh please no. It is a terrible design to work with, the screw holes were put where they fit between wire traces, so random, and they don't provide sufficient support for the board under the GPIO header (or anywhere else) Then there are the connectors on every side of the board and the lack of a proper power connector (no DC jack). USB power supply caused issues consume most of the forums for the thing. The Pi proved there is a demand for a simple PC at this price point, there are now several products that are much better and offer a lower total cost (once accessories are factored in) with many more on the way.
- alexcroox 13y ago
  What are the best recommendations?
  - dade_ 13y ago
    In my experience, the BeagleBone Black is much better all around. A few key reasons: a proper power supply connection, far more GPIO interfaces for connecting lights, sensors etc (raspberry pi has far fewer), 8 PwM outputs (pi has 1), 8 analog inputs (pi has none). From a cost point of view, you need to buy an SD card for a Pi, beaglebone has 2GB onboard and a far faster bus so booting and application performance is vastly better. If you add up all of the costs to put a project together (analog to digital converters, PWM breakout boards) + SD card, the pi actually costs more. That said, the pi does have 2 USB ports and BBB has 1, so that is a downside for some scenarios. Technical documentation of the BBB is a world better than pi. 4 mounting holes at each corner and all io interfaces at 2 opposite ends of the board which make a Much better form factor as well. There are more, but those the the main ones that come to mind. I hope that helps.
- lelandbatey 13y ago
  With you mentioning better alternatives, could you list or link to a list of these better alternatives?
  - Lerc 13y ago
    Well there are these, Some better, some worse. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_single-board_computers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_single-board_computers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_single-board_computers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_single-board_comp... I have a cubieboard-2 with a Allwinner A20 (dual cortex-A7 mali 400mp2). Marginally larger, with sata, onboard flash, also LVDS and vga available from the pin headers.
zx2c4 13y ago
Anyone know any single board computers with multiple gigabit ethernet ports? My UBNT EdgeRouter Lite with Gentoo on it just isn't powerful enough anymore.

53 points by noonespecial 13y ago

I'm glad in a way that this is happening. Arduin-ification is an important step towards ubiquity and 3rd party compatible addons of all kinds. OTOH, it really is a terrible form factor if you think about it. It's ports are spread across every edge and surface and even at that, the USB is offset on its edge just to make it interesting.

ajross 13y ago
Honestly, I'm not sure that makes sense to me. Your criteria for "good form factor" seem to presuppose that the board is going to go into some kind of standard enclosure. That's not the way these are being deployed -- they're going in weird custom boxes (or costumes, or stuffed animals...) with a bunch of other junk. Making the board physically larger just to get all the connectors on the same edge is going to be a net inconvenience for lots of the target market. Obviously for any one device there's going to be a better form factor. But that's not what the Pi is for.
- zokier 13y ago
  I think you got it entirely backwards. If there was some standard enclosure then nobody would care where the connectors were. But exactly because it ends up in all sorts diy projects and enclosures, the crazyish design makes it bad because it is unnecessarily difficult to design around.
adestefan 13y ago
Unfortunately. Arduino-ification means that shields continue in the world of non-standard header pitch size. And as you pointed out this is once again just making a terrible "standard."

hengheng 13y ago

Speaking of form factors, I'm really looking forward for a widely-accepted form factor for living room electronics. Rarely any devices still require 440mm of width, and thus all consoles, set top boxes, sat receivers, small HTPCs and many stereo amps invent their own. Along with a huge rat's nest of cabling, this just looks immature. I'm actually excited for stereo amps, or other home entertainment gadgets, in raspberry pi format.

lttlrck 13y ago
It's to the manufacturers advantage to make their equipment aesthetically and ergonomically incompatible with their competitors. Hide them away.
liotier 13y ago
Stereo amps in Raspberry Pi format ? Even with the latest technology, an amplifier still require a large and heavy power supply and a no less large and heavy radiator for the big transistors...
- atwebb 13y ago
  Perhaps they meant a DAC or headphone amp? They aren't Pi small but some get fairly small and a select few higher end ones can drive extremely efficient speakers, but that's a bit of a stretch.
- moron4hire 13y ago
  Depends on the output level you want. Honestly, I don't need the full output of my home stereo for things like board game parties in the yard. A buddy of mine makes battery-powered amplifier-and-speaker combos into ersatz book boxes. It's more than enough to plug a phone into and play some MP3s on a picnic. There is a pretty big market for all kinds of levels of devices.
- hengheng 13y ago
  I was thinking of the Pro-Ject Stereo Box, which is 2x30W with some quite excellent sound up to its maximum power. But I'll admit there are smaller things sitting on my living room altar.

aray 13y ago

Awesome! This chip is the i.MX 6 Quad that's going into bunnie's open source "Novena" laptop[1] I've been using the freescale development platform for the chip[2] (SABRE Lite) to try to follow along with Novena's progress, but my biggest complaint is that it's too large and oddly shaped to carry around every day. With this formfactor, I can just put it in a raspberry pi case, and throw it in a bag without worrying about it getting smashed. [1] http://www.kosagi.com/w/index.php?title=Novena_Main_Page%E2%80%8E http://www.kosagi.com/w/index.php?title=Novena_Main_Page%E2%... [2] http://www.element14.com/community/community/knode/single-board_computers/sabrelite http://www.element14.com/community/community/knode/single-bo... Edit: looks like it's not for sale, but hackaday mentions they might if there's enough interest.

malexw 13y ago

It has hardly become a form factor. This is one company that has designed one board (which they aren't even selling!) that has the same layout as the Pi. Calling it a new form factor seems like its jumping the gun a bit.

snarfy 13y ago

Why would anyone clone the Raspberry Pi's form factor? Why would you ever want connectors on all four sides? Of all the things to clone on the Raspberry Pi, the form factor shouldn't be one of them.

dade_ 13y ago

Oh please no. It is a terrible design to work with, the screw holes were put where they fit between wire traces, so random, and they don't provide sufficient support for the board under the GPIO header (or anywhere else) Then there are the connectors on every side of the board and the lack of a proper power connector (no DC jack). USB power supply caused issues consume most of the forums for the thing. The Pi proved there is a demand for a simple PC at this price point, there are now several products that are much better and offer a lower total cost (once accessories are factored in) with many more on the way.

alexcroox 13y ago
What are the best recommendations?
- dade_ 13y ago
  In my experience, the BeagleBone Black is much better all around. A few key reasons: a proper power supply connection, far more GPIO interfaces for connecting lights, sensors etc (raspberry pi has far fewer), 8 PwM outputs (pi has 1), 8 analog inputs (pi has none). From a cost point of view, you need to buy an SD card for a Pi, beaglebone has 2GB onboard and a far faster bus so booting and application performance is vastly better. If you add up all of the costs to put a project together (analog to digital converters, PWM breakout boards) + SD card, the pi actually costs more. That said, the pi does have 2 USB ports and BBB has 1, so that is a downside for some scenarios. Technical documentation of the BBB is a world better than pi. 4 mounting holes at each corner and all io interfaces at 2 opposite ends of the board which make a Much better form factor as well. There are more, but those the the main ones that come to mind. I hope that helps.
lelandbatey 13y ago
With you mentioning better alternatives, could you list or link to a list of these better alternatives?
- Lerc 13y ago
  Well there are these, Some better, some worse. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_single-board_computers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_single-board_computers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_single-board_computers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_single-board_comp... I have a cubieboard-2 with a Allwinner A20 (dual cortex-A7 mali 400mp2). Marginally larger, with sata, onboard flash, also LVDS and vga available from the pin headers.

zx2c4 13y ago

Anyone know any single board computers with multiple gigabit ethernet ports? My UBNT EdgeRouter Lite with Gentoo on it just isn't powerful enough anymore.