5 ms·

I actually have a friend who became an NYPD officer (!!!) at some point last decade. Ask him if he's got any crazy stories about stupid shit other cops have do

by Amadou 13y ago

I actually have a friend who became an NYPD officer (!!!) at some point last decade. Ask him if he's got any crazy stories about stupid shit other cops have done. Then ask him why he hasn't reported them for doing it. That's the real problem, a very real application of "one rotten apple spoils the barrel." The problem isn't so much the individual police who violate the public trust (there will always be bad apples as long as there are humans involved), it is all of the others who turn a blind eye to those violations. Those cops who never commit any overt violations but let other cops off with a free pass are the ones responsible for eroding public trust because they teach the public that it is an "us vs them" mentality. As a privileged white guy 99% of the time your interactions with the police will probably be just fine, but even you never know when that 1% bad apple is going to show up, but you do know his buddies won't do anything to hold him to account for what he might do to you. I think you probably understand this to some extent, referencing "the thin blue line" (the documentary of that name actually turned the phrase on its head), I just wanted to spell it out for anyone else who might not be familiar with the ironic definition of that term.

vacri 13y ago
This isn't an issue that's particular to police. Go into a restaurant and have an average meal? The waiter isn't going to start harping on how crap the chef is. Call up tech support for your five-figure software? They're not going to dump the devs in the shit for your problem. Presenting a unified front to outside forces is usually necessary for employment, and something that we do innately as humans anyway. Given how thoroughly whistleblowers are destroyed, it's hard to fault someone for not calling a colleague out on relatively small matters. Edit: I don't mean the article when I say small matters
- Amadou 13y ago
  This isn't an issue that's particular to police. It is particular to police in that they are entrusted with greater responsibility than pretty much any other organization in the country. Their standards of accountability need to be proportional to that responsibility. Given how thoroughly whistleblowers are destroyed, it's hard to fault someone for not calling a colleague out on relatively small matters. That's circular reasoning -- Given how corrupt they are, it is no wonder that no one on the inside stands up to the corruption.
  - vacri 13y ago
    I think you're misreading me. I'm not saying that they shouldn't be held to a higher standard of accountability. I'm saying that presenting a united front is something that is a very human trait - and further saying that of course people aren't going to step forward when whistleblowers get the axe. If you want to fix issues with the police, the first thing you have to understand is that there are humans behind those uniforms, humans who have spent a significant part of their life getting there. Being part of a skilled occupation is not something most people can just toss aside casually, hence why small offences get overlooked. If you can understand the motivations and psychology of the people doing the wrong thing, you have a wider array of tools at your disposal than "I have a really big stick here if you make a wrong step". As for the circular reasoning bit - not at all circular, given that I'm not saying 'free pass'. If you want to break the cycle, change the culture. You do that by making it a point with the people cops answer to; make them give whistleblowers better protection. Changing the culture is difficult, but if you want serious change, that's the way to do it.
- dinkumthinkum 13y ago
  I hate to even say it but ... there were a set of trials that occurred in Europe in the middle of the last century. It seems like you would have been pro-defense ...
  - vacri 13y ago
    Nice Godwining, given that I've already clarified an hour ago (in response to Amadou) that I was not defending their actions, but trying to better understand motive to stop this happening again. Thanks for calling me a Nazi for trying to better understand how people are motivated, by the way. I suggested improving protections for whistleblowers as a way to prevent this kind of situation in future. Clearly I instead should have been demanding permanent imprisonment (or even the death penalty) for specific people I don't like, all without a nod towards a fair trial. Then I wouldn't be like a Nazi at all!

by Amadou 13y ago

vacri 13y ago

This isn't an issue that's particular to police. Go into a restaurant and have an average meal? The waiter isn't going to start harping on how crap the chef is. Call up tech support for your five-figure software? They're not going to dump the devs in the shit for your problem. Presenting a unified front to outside forces is usually necessary for employment, and something that we do innately as humans anyway. Given how thoroughly whistleblowers are destroyed, it's hard to fault someone for not calling a colleague out on relatively small matters. Edit: I don't mean the article when I say small matters

Amadou 13y ago
This isn't an issue that's particular to police. It is particular to police in that they are entrusted with greater responsibility than pretty much any other organization in the country. Their standards of accountability need to be proportional to that responsibility. Given how thoroughly whistleblowers are destroyed, it's hard to fault someone for not calling a colleague out on relatively small matters. That's circular reasoning -- Given how corrupt they are, it is no wonder that no one on the inside stands up to the corruption.
- vacri 13y ago
  I think you're misreading me. I'm not saying that they shouldn't be held to a higher standard of accountability. I'm saying that presenting a united front is something that is a very human trait - and further saying that of course people aren't going to step forward when whistleblowers get the axe. If you want to fix issues with the police, the first thing you have to understand is that there are humans behind those uniforms, humans who have spent a significant part of their life getting there. Being part of a skilled occupation is not something most people can just toss aside casually, hence why small offences get overlooked. If you can understand the motivations and psychology of the people doing the wrong thing, you have a wider array of tools at your disposal than "I have a really big stick here if you make a wrong step". As for the circular reasoning bit - not at all circular, given that I'm not saying 'free pass'. If you want to break the cycle, change the culture. You do that by making it a point with the people cops answer to; make them give whistleblowers better protection. Changing the culture is difficult, but if you want serious change, that's the way to do it.
dinkumthinkum 13y ago
I hate to even say it but ... there were a set of trials that occurred in Europe in the middle of the last century. It seems like you would have been pro-defense ...
- vacri 13y ago
  Nice Godwining, given that I've already clarified an hour ago (in response to Amadou) that I was not defending their actions, but trying to better understand motive to stop this happening again. Thanks for calling me a Nazi for trying to better understand how people are motivated, by the way. I suggested improving protections for whistleblowers as a way to prevent this kind of situation in future. Clearly I instead should have been demanding permanent imprisonment (or even the death penalty) for specific people I don't like, all without a nod towards a fair trial. Then I wouldn't be like a Nazi at all!