9 ms·
If you do it, it's rape. If they do it, it's a search. If you do it, it's theft. If they do it, it's a tax. If you do it, it's torture. If they do it, it's en
by smokeyj 13y ago
If you do it, it's rape. If they do it, it's a search.
If you do it, it's theft. If they do it, it's a tax.
If you do it, it's torture. If they do it, it's enhanced interrogation.
If you do it, it's terrorism. If they do it, it's freedom fighting.
If you do it, it's counterfeiting. If they do it, it's quantitative easing.
If you do it, it's a mafia. If they do it, it's a government.
- samweinberg 13y agoOh come on, it's not as simple as that and you know it.
- adamwong246 13y agoWhat? What?! It's EXACTLY as simple as that! What is this complication you speak of?
- rosser 13y agoPlease dispense with the bullshit specious equivocations. This forum warrants a higher level of discourse than that.
- lwhalen 13y agoHow is it specious? It seems fairly dead-on accurate to me.
- edias 13y agoGovernments have different powers than citizens and different roles in society. Do they abuse those powers often? Yes, they have since this country was formed, nothing new here. What does smokeyj's comment add to the discussion? At best it's emotionally charged and douchy way of saying you don't like the government.
- Jayschwa 13y ago> Governments have different powers than citizens I disagree with this. If an individual does not have the right to do something, neither does a collective. We all individually have the right to defend ourselves, for example. As with most things in society, it's more efficient to "outsource" the task to specialists like police. However, if individuals do not have the permission bits to do something like administer non-consensual anal probes, neither should law enforcement.
- mburns 13y ago>If an individual citizen does not have the right to do something, neither does a collective An individual does not have right to punish another person in response to a crime after the fact (A.K.A. revenge). Collectively, we do.
- Jayschwa 13y agoI believe revenge on an individual level can be morally legit.
- mburns 13y agoWell that's fine, but we're not comparing personal opinions. This tangent was brought to us by smokeyj's ramblings about the injustice of governments doing bad things with unequal punishment, and edias explaining why he's full of it. Reality is well established that government plays a different role than individuals and is explicitly given permissions we refuse to citizens by way of the Constitution. People can't own ICBMs or atomic bombs, either, which is their sovereign right if not for the oppressive government.
- kika 13y agoCollectively we do justice, not revenge. Justice differs in one important aspect - we give the other party the ability to prepare and defend itself.
- Intermernet 13y ago
- tenderLoins 13y agoWell, the taxes/theft thing isn't quite appropriate. Seizure, impounding, eviction, even fines, ...these might ring truer, since they're generally harsher, require less sophistication and such effects are more immediate. These things are often unavoidable, and inflicted without option or recourse. Meanwhile, taxes, tolls, tariffs... eh, not so much. They're slow, often legislated amidst varying degrees of democracy (in our modern times) and in some cases can be met with degrees of flexibility, where a real slippery individual might be capable of avoiding them.
- BetterLateThan 13y ago> Well, the taxes/theft thing isn't quite appropriate. True. Taxes are armed robbery with a threat of kidnapping and confinement. They have nothing to do with theft.
- mburns 13y ago>Taxes are armed robbery This is such a crock. Taxes are the agreed upon payment for services rendered, the EULA for which you agreed to by being in the country.
- smokeyj 13y ago> Taxes are the agreed upon payment for services rendered, the EULA for which you agreed to by being in the country. If taxes were called protection money you still wouldn't connect the dots.
- np422 13y agoThat is not an agreement, at best it is "being held at ransom". Are you willing to give up your language, culture, job, home, friends and family and probably whole lot of other things to nullify that EULA? Every law that is a promise to use force, incarceration and violence to uphold it. And the tax system today is more and more like two wolves and a sheep having a vote on what to eat for supper.
- 13y ago
- smokeyj 13y agoAre you being ironic or serious?
- wissler 13y agoPeople like you are why things just keep getting worse.
- rosser 13y ago"People like you." Yeah, that's exactly the caliber of discourse I was hoping for...
- wissler 13y agoThe fact that we regard it as "civilized" discourse to treat people with respect regardless of how barbaric their remarks are is one of the problems with our present state of civilization.
- Yver 13y agoIf you can't articulate your point without resorting to personal attacks, please refrain.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- crististm 13y agoPlease shut up. Or - excuse us for not raising up to your standards.
- sbank 13y agoI know you are probably only speaking for yourself, but smokeyj is dead-on as far as I am concerned.
- edias 13y agoIs this seriously what HN has come to recently? Ever since the NSA revelations, that most of us have been assuming for a while anyways, I can't visit this site without seeing a front page articles about abuse by the government or a snarky comment like this. Not saying this particular article is unwarranted but you get my point. Yes, HN is for more than just tech and I love many of the articles that wind up on this site but I disagree that biased politics should be a cornerstone. Yes, the government is far over reaching it's bounds, I don't think many people on this site would disagree with that, but when it gets to the point where I have to read a comment related to the NSA in every single thread, regardless of it's relevance, it gets tiresome. Nothing is being added to the discussion, just emotionally charged comments like the one above. The "preaching to the quire" metaphore could not be more applicable to this situation. HN is not a sight to raise awareness on, we all know. I've only been on this site for about 2.5 years now so I'm far from a veteran, but I have seen two major events that have caused a wave of pointless comments. 1) NSA spying revelations as stated above. 2) Google reader shutting down - Companies discontinue old products in favor of new potentially more popular ones. Get over it, there's plenty of alternatives and I don't care that every time a Google product launches you're hesitant to use it because "what if Google discontinues it?". Just like the NSA, stop bringing up stuff everyone knows. Can we stick to topics that actually raise discussion please.
- smokeyj 13y ago> Can we stick to topics that actually raise discussion please. Is everyone trying to be ironic?
- jol 13y ago>Just like the NSA, stop bringing up stuff everyone knows. Google reader shutdown, ok, many geeks used it, there is alternatives.. blablabla. But are you saying that NSA spying on everyone should be just another minor fact, I don't get it. Doesn't it seem wrong to you that someone is listening to ALL your digital communications/actions?
- edias 13y agoI am in no way saying it isn't a problem or we shouldn't talk about it. It's terrible what the NSA is doing. All I'm saying is my HN experience has noticeably decreased do to the massive amount of shallow comments these topics bring. Call your representatives if you want to make a difference, flooding a tech forum with political comments isn't going to do anything.