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"Back of the envelope calculations put the cost of car ownership around $7,000 per year." You could buy a ten-year-old used car every year, plus insurance, for

"Back of the envelope calculations put the cost of car ownership around $7,000 per year." You could buy a ten-year-old used car every year, plus insurance, for $2,000 or less [1] (assuming insurance is mostly the same as in the US). When it breaks down, buy a new one and sell the old one for parts or junk. Owning a car provides courses of action you wouldn't consider without it. There's an extra level of planning involved if you have to try to find a car first, or take a train or airplane; if you have a car, the first step to any medium-length trip is to jump in the car, rather than to try to work out the logistics of how you'd get there. [1] http://montreal.en.craigslist.ca/search/cta?query=&zoomToPosting=&minAsk=500&maxAsk=1500&autoMinYear=&autoMaxYear= http://montreal.en.craigslist.ca/search/cta?query=&zoomToPos...

snogglethorpe 13y ago
> There's an extra level of planning involved if you have to try to find a car first, or take a train or airplane Note that this not really true of countries with good transportation networks. Granted that the U.S. doesn't have one, but that's exactly one of the things people want to fix....
graeme 13y ago
Ok, but what's the total annual cost then? I don't commute, so I guess it would depend on how much I drove – what's a ballpark gas estimate? Don't forget to add the cost of my time for buying + selling – how long would it take to make a good purchase/sale? (serious questions, I don't know the answers because I have had no interest in a car). My parents own a car, so I know what its like to live in a place with one. Doesn't feel substantially different from what I've got now. As the other comment said, there's a very well developed transport network where I am, including public cars. You could say not every place is like this, but I chose to live here in lieu of a place where this lifestyle isn't possible.
- randallsquared 13y ago
  It depends strongly on the gas mileage for the car, of course, but my first assumption would be that for most people the cost of public transit is about the same as gas. My daily commute, for example (which I know you don't have, but most people do) is about 50 miles. On days I don't work from home, my choice is between a commuter train which costs $22 round trip, commuting on the long-distance train ($28 round trip), or driving, which costs about $10-15 in gas, depending on the current price of gas. I mostly take the train, because driving into Washington, DC isn't fun; I'm certainly not trying to convince you to run out and buy a car, just responding to the assertion that it would cost $7000 a year extra to keep one. I lived in the DC metro for two years without a car, before purchasing this one, and having lived both ways, I personally strongly prefer having a car. Without one, I had to structure my life around not having a car. Going to the computer store (Microcenter) to pick up a new video card on a whim was something that would take the bulk of the day without a car (two or three metro lines depending on route). If the store half a mile from my house didn't have something, I had to either plan a trip on a bus to another one (and what if that one didn't, either? So I spent a lot of time trying to figure out in advance online if they did), or just go without. I don't much like shopping for groceries, but I got to do it three or four times a week anyway, because I couldn't carry enough 2L bottles to last longer than a few days, etc... without a car, a lot of my life was concerned with inventory and transportation, in a way that I don't even think about with a car, since I can pop out to any kind of store and be back in 20 minutes.
  - graeme 13y ago
    I see. We may have different use cases. I wasn't exaggerating when I said everything is literally five minutes away in my neighborhood. I usually get groceries several times per week, on my walk home from somewhere. Occasionally I take a somewhat longer walk to a cheap grocery store for certain items, but no planning required. I don't drink pop or juice, so no 2L bottles. Apple store and protein powder describe the two items I can't get within this 5 minute radius. And transit is $4.80 round trip with a pass and takes me anywhere in town quickly. Metro gets you anywhere, so no planning or routes required. Taxi downtown is $12-$15 if for some reason I'm in a rush.
philwelch 13y ago
I pay $75/mo for Zipcar. On the rare occasion that I "need a car", I can just jump into one, adjust the seats and go. Annual cost: $900. 0 for gas or insurance. And if anything, I actually use it much less than that on average.

snogglethorpe 13y ago

> There's an extra level of planning involved if you have to try to find a car first, or take a train or airplane Note that this not really true of countries with good transportation networks. Granted that the U.S. doesn't have one, but that's exactly one of the things people want to fix....

graeme 13y ago

Ok, but what's the total annual cost then? I don't commute, so I guess it would depend on how much I drove – what's a ballpark gas estimate? Don't forget to add the cost of my time for buying + selling – how long would it take to make a good purchase/sale? (serious questions, I don't know the answers because I have had no interest in a car). My parents own a car, so I know what its like to live in a place with one. Doesn't feel substantially different from what I've got now. As the other comment said, there's a very well developed transport network where I am, including public cars. You could say not every place is like this, but I chose to live here in lieu of a place where this lifestyle isn't possible.

randallsquared 13y ago
It depends strongly on the gas mileage for the car, of course, but my first assumption would be that for most people the cost of public transit is about the same as gas. My daily commute, for example (which I know you don't have, but most people do) is about 50 miles. On days I don't work from home, my choice is between a commuter train which costs $22 round trip, commuting on the long-distance train ($28 round trip), or driving, which costs about $10-15 in gas, depending on the current price of gas. I mostly take the train, because driving into Washington, DC isn't fun; I'm certainly not trying to convince you to run out and buy a car, just responding to the assertion that it would cost $7000 a year extra to keep one. I lived in the DC metro for two years without a car, before purchasing this one, and having lived both ways, I personally strongly prefer having a car. Without one, I had to structure my life around not having a car. Going to the computer store (Microcenter) to pick up a new video card on a whim was something that would take the bulk of the day without a car (two or three metro lines depending on route). If the store half a mile from my house didn't have something, I had to either plan a trip on a bus to another one (and what if that one didn't, either? So I spent a lot of time trying to figure out in advance online if they did), or just go without. I don't much like shopping for groceries, but I got to do it three or four times a week anyway, because I couldn't carry enough 2L bottles to last longer than a few days, etc... without a car, a lot of my life was concerned with inventory and transportation, in a way that I don't even think about with a car, since I can pop out to any kind of store and be back in 20 minutes.
- graeme 13y ago
  I see. We may have different use cases. I wasn't exaggerating when I said everything is literally five minutes away in my neighborhood. I usually get groceries several times per week, on my walk home from somewhere. Occasionally I take a somewhat longer walk to a cheap grocery store for certain items, but no planning required. I don't drink pop or juice, so no 2L bottles. Apple store and protein powder describe the two items I can't get within this 5 minute radius. And transit is $4.80 round trip with a pass and takes me anywhere in town quickly. Metro gets you anywhere, so no planning or routes required. Taxi downtown is $12-$15 if for some reason I'm in a rush.

philwelch 13y ago

I pay $75/mo for Zipcar. On the rare occasion that I "need a car", I can just jump into one, adjust the seats and go. Annual cost: $900. 0 for gas or insurance. And if anything, I actually use it much less than that on average.