4 ms·

Out of everything in that survey the gender gap (page 6) strikes me the most. It's sad that it even exists, honestly. To see the continual increase in male sala

Out of everything in that survey the gender gap (page 6) strikes me the most. It's sad that it even exists, honestly. To see the continual increase in male salaries, and that fairly stagnant top end for females.. seriously!? For an industry that is trying to employ more female engineers, the trend sucks. As articulated in the synopsis at the bottom, 'This disgraceful disparity lays bare the false — but cherished — belief that our profession is at its core a meritocracy.'

donutdan4114 13y ago
It would be interesting to know why the gap exists. Is it simply that males are typically offered higher starting salaries? Do men typically try to get raises more (more aggressive at asking)? Are women more satisfied with their salaries, where men are always wanting more? Probably a lot of interesting, complicated dynamics that effect the gap.
- jacalata 13y ago
  One fairly widely reported influence is that women are less likely to request raises (or promotions) and less likely to negotiate salaries on an initial job offer. One hypothesis for why this is so is that women who ask for things are seen as pushy/demanding whereas men who ask for things are seen as go-getters, not sure what the research on that is like at the moment. However I also remember reading a study that showed people reading a resume with a female name proposed a lower salary offer in the first place (academics in math, I believe). So, all of the above?
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
learc83 13y ago
I'm not saying a gender gap doesn't exist, but the data you're looking at doesn't prove that it does. It's well documented that women prefer other benefits, such as more time off and flexible work schedules (at the expense of base salary) more than men.
mattm 13y ago
Read "Why Men Earn More" by Warren Farrell to understand the reasons why this is.
zalzane 13y ago
Putting aside the irony of this article sitting next to the "Statistics Done Wrong" article, a cumulative average to detect a gender/race wage gap is absolutely insane. Here's a short list of factors that could contribute to the results the article in OP has: -Lower number of years working in the field due to taking time off for maternity leave, or going back to work after raising a child. I suspect this is probably the biggest single contributor to the pseudo-gap in the article's charts. -Concentration of male/female developers in different subfields. Ex: men may be more inclined to work in security penetration, which may pay higher than other disciplines -Male/female college degree/other pedigree rates I'm no statistician, but I think these factors are more than important enough would have to be taken into account when trying to figure out the size of the gender wage gap. Don't forget to leave a comment telling me why I'm wrong when you downvote my comment for being unproductive.
- reeses 13y ago
  On the surface, the points you cite are inflammatory and often used a priori to justify paying women less. It's a bit irresponsible after that slide not to put the rest of the results into the context of gender. Are women represented proportionally by age? The last table in the article ("What Matters Most") would blow the lid off of many of the arguments. Do people who "could find seven attributes of their job more meaningful than base salary" in general make less than others? Do women and men respond differently to those questions? What is the disparity between men and women who value base pay most? The only value I can extract from this survey is that a) it's BS that female compensation stagnated while male compensation rose (was there a mini-baby boom during which a lot of women took unpaid maternity leave?) and b) Dr Dobbs is getting less and less relevant, given that they consider "Company-paid smartphone/wireless email" to be a form of compensation.
- dcre 13y ago
  I upvoted you, but I do disagree. Overall I see your points as explanations for/additional evidence of a more general gender gap — not as reasons to think it's a statistical illusion. One point you didn't make, though it is hinted at by your first point, is that if the proportion of women in the field is increasing over time, women's average age will be lower than men's (assuming people tend to enter the field from college and not from other fields, which seems reasonable), which would distort the salary numbers in a genuinely misleading way.

donutdan4114 13y ago

It would be interesting to know why the gap exists. Is it simply that males are typically offered higher starting salaries? Do men typically try to get raises more (more aggressive at asking)? Are women more satisfied with their salaries, where men are always wanting more? Probably a lot of interesting, complicated dynamics that effect the gap.

jacalata 13y ago
One fairly widely reported influence is that women are less likely to request raises (or promotions) and less likely to negotiate salaries on an initial job offer. One hypothesis for why this is so is that women who ask for things are seen as pushy/demanding whereas men who ask for things are seen as go-getters, not sure what the research on that is like at the moment. However I also remember reading a study that showed people reading a resume with a female name proposed a lower salary offer in the first place (academics in math, I believe). So, all of the above?
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

learc83 13y ago

I'm not saying a gender gap doesn't exist, but the data you're looking at doesn't prove that it does. It's well documented that women prefer other benefits, such as more time off and flexible work schedules (at the expense of base salary) more than men.

mattm 13y ago

Read "Why Men Earn More" by Warren Farrell to understand the reasons why this is.

zalzane 13y ago

Putting aside the irony of this article sitting next to the "Statistics Done Wrong" article, a cumulative average to detect a gender/race wage gap is absolutely insane. Here's a short list of factors that could contribute to the results the article in OP has: -Lower number of years working in the field due to taking time off for maternity leave, or going back to work after raising a child. I suspect this is probably the biggest single contributor to the pseudo-gap in the article's charts. -Concentration of male/female developers in different subfields. Ex: men may be more inclined to work in security penetration, which may pay higher than other disciplines -Male/female college degree/other pedigree rates I'm no statistician, but I think these factors are more than important enough would have to be taken into account when trying to figure out the size of the gender wage gap. Don't forget to leave a comment telling me why I'm wrong when you downvote my comment for being unproductive.

reeses 13y ago
On the surface, the points you cite are inflammatory and often used a priori to justify paying women less. It's a bit irresponsible after that slide not to put the rest of the results into the context of gender. Are women represented proportionally by age? The last table in the article ("What Matters Most") would blow the lid off of many of the arguments. Do people who "could find seven attributes of their job more meaningful than base salary" in general make less than others? Do women and men respond differently to those questions? What is the disparity between men and women who value base pay most? The only value I can extract from this survey is that a) it's BS that female compensation stagnated while male compensation rose (was there a mini-baby boom during which a lot of women took unpaid maternity leave?) and b) Dr Dobbs is getting less and less relevant, given that they consider "Company-paid smartphone/wireless email" to be a form of compensation.
dcre 13y ago
I upvoted you, but I do disagree. Overall I see your points as explanations for/additional evidence of a more general gender gap — not as reasons to think it's a statistical illusion. One point you didn't make, though it is hinted at by your first point, is that if the proportion of women in the field is increasing over time, women's average age will be lower than men's (assuming people tend to enter the field from college and not from other fields, which seems reasonable), which would distort the salary numbers in a genuinely misleading way.