3 ms·

Column, like the majority of the side-projects I've been involved in, is the result of my own personal failures & frustrations. Namely: "Why is it always such

Column, like the majority of the side-projects I've been involved in, is the result of my own personal failures & frustrations. Namely: "Why is it always such a f^*k#ng pain in the ass to get a hackathon group organized!" I'd like to believe the majority of the dev community is regularly participating in hackathons, they should be, hackathons are a fantastic way to put down our day-to-day responsibilities and remind ourselves why we pursued this career in the first place: it's ridiculously fun. Fun to learn, play with new tech and get a bit competitive. You know what isn't fun? Endless discussion over which server-side framework to use, which folder structure makes the most sense, which client-side package management system to use, how to bring everyones preferences together. That stuff has a time and place, but during a hackathon? Not so much. Column is my first attempt to make choices suitable for a hackathon: Which tools will allow us to co-ordinate effectively, to work on different parts of the project without stumbling over each other? It's a start. Let's build tools that enable us to focus on what's important during a hackathon: winning... I mean having fun.

k3n 13y ago
> Endless discussion over which server-side framework to use, which folder structure makes the most sense, which client-side package management system to use, how to bring everyones preferences together. It sounds like the challenge is dealing with different people that have differing opinions on what to use, and with this project you're just saying "Use this, trust me!" and hoping that nobody objects? The answer to the problem is to prescribe as much as you can beforehand, so that there is effectively no room for discussion around these points? It doesn't seem to actually solve any problems around gaining consensus, it just pushes one very opinionated view. Or perhaps I've misunderstood completely.
- matt_creager 13y ago
  A number of challenges exist, one of them as you mentioned is just a matter of people having different opinions, another is peoples specializations, if you don't frequently work with client-side tools you might not have been introduced to LiveReload for example. Prescribing an approach beforehand is exactly what I'm advocating, the best way I know how, with an example :) I think what we need right now is opinions, mine, yours, anyone with expertise and the willingness to apply it to this problem really, so we can begin the process of iterating on it, improving it. It won't be the best tool for every hackathon, but we can create a solid foundation.
  - k3n 13y ago
    Ok, that does make more sense in the context of dealing with those unfamiliar with the problem space. And I agree that it's good to have something to bring to the table, as it can demonstrate the fitness of the proposed solution, or if nothing else, provide a starting point.
Zypho 13y ago
You're contradicting the problem that you've set out to solve. Now at a hackathon, when debating with my team which frameworks to use etc we now have another scaffolding tool to debate over. This involves those who might not like yeoman, may not prefer the template library you're giving them. As well there will be those who've looked at your repo and simply don't agree with the code your scaffolding. I like the idea, I really do, but the problem you're solving is all wrong. This isn't a solution for teams to get organized, because in the end you're just another member of their team saying "This is whats best". This is a solution for a team who finds themselves at a real-time/node/web-app hackathon working with technologies they don't know and its a quick way to guide them in "A" direction, weather its the right or not they will decide once they learn more.
- matt_creager 13y ago
  Hey Zypho, thanks for your feedback :) I mentioned that I really built Column to solve my own problems first (my fiance might say I need medication, not more software), I happen to be a real-time/node/web-app developer, and participate in hackathons, so you've hit the nail on the head with your last statement :) I'm hoping that just bringing some attention to this issue, and how we're trying to solve it will help teams recognize that preparation is critical, and an easy way to make participating in a hackathon both more fun, and more informative. One important point that I think you're making here, is that we need to defend each choice, for example: What makes Swig a good hackathon templating solution? Debate is important, debate will help us reach some consensus over which tools make appropriate defaults and why. So when the argument begins (hopefully prior to the hackathon), why this tool? You can point them to a landing page which provides the key benefits of each tool, with links to the documentation, and whatever else might help a team get started.

k3n 13y ago

> Endless discussion over which server-side framework to use, which folder structure makes the most sense, which client-side package management system to use, how to bring everyones preferences together. It sounds like the challenge is dealing with different people that have differing opinions on what to use, and with this project you're just saying "Use this, trust me!" and hoping that nobody objects? The answer to the problem is to prescribe as much as you can beforehand, so that there is effectively no room for discussion around these points? It doesn't seem to actually solve any problems around gaining consensus, it just pushes one very opinionated view. Or perhaps I've misunderstood completely.

matt_creager 13y ago
A number of challenges exist, one of them as you mentioned is just a matter of people having different opinions, another is peoples specializations, if you don't frequently work with client-side tools you might not have been introduced to LiveReload for example. Prescribing an approach beforehand is exactly what I'm advocating, the best way I know how, with an example :) I think what we need right now is opinions, mine, yours, anyone with expertise and the willingness to apply it to this problem really, so we can begin the process of iterating on it, improving it. It won't be the best tool for every hackathon, but we can create a solid foundation.
- k3n 13y ago
  Ok, that does make more sense in the context of dealing with those unfamiliar with the problem space. And I agree that it's good to have something to bring to the table, as it can demonstrate the fitness of the proposed solution, or if nothing else, provide a starting point.

Zypho 13y ago

You're contradicting the problem that you've set out to solve. Now at a hackathon, when debating with my team which frameworks to use etc we now have another scaffolding tool to debate over. This involves those who might not like yeoman, may not prefer the template library you're giving them. As well there will be those who've looked at your repo and simply don't agree with the code your scaffolding. I like the idea, I really do, but the problem you're solving is all wrong. This isn't a solution for teams to get organized, because in the end you're just another member of their team saying "This is whats best". This is a solution for a team who finds themselves at a real-time/node/web-app hackathon working with technologies they don't know and its a quick way to guide them in "A" direction, weather its the right or not they will decide once they learn more.

matt_creager 13y ago
Hey Zypho, thanks for your feedback :) I mentioned that I really built Column to solve my own problems first (my fiance might say I need medication, not more software), I happen to be a real-time/node/web-app developer, and participate in hackathons, so you've hit the nail on the head with your last statement :) I'm hoping that just bringing some attention to this issue, and how we're trying to solve it will help teams recognize that preparation is critical, and an easy way to make participating in a hackathon both more fun, and more informative. One important point that I think you're making here, is that we need to defend each choice, for example: What makes Swig a good hackathon templating solution? Debate is important, debate will help us reach some consensus over which tools make appropriate defaults and why. So when the argument begins (hopefully prior to the hackathon), why this tool? You can point them to a landing page which provides the key benefits of each tool, with links to the documentation, and whatever else might help a team get started.