2 ms·

I do make unconditional donations to Bing as well, and larger amounts than this auction is likely to generate. Yes, frankly, I feel like the concerns expressed

by pg 13y ago

I do make unconditional donations to Bing as well, and larger amounts than this auction is likely to generate. Yes, frankly, I feel like the concerns expressed here are a kind of moral bikeshedding. What harm does it do if one rich kid gets to come to a YC dinner? It's too much trouble to armor oneself against cheap shots. People who want to misunderstand you have an almost endless ability to do so, so you'd have to devote correspondingly endless energy to replying.

tnuc 13y ago
What harm does it do if only rich kids get to go to a YC dinner? A place for some more deserving poor kid would be nice.
moocowduckquack 13y ago
One kid getting dinner is obviously no big deal, there is however something percieved to be wrong with it being normal for the rich to buy access for their kids to business opportunities. You are probably right that it is massive overanalysis considering the subject, though at least it wasn't a free lunch.
- michaelochurch 13y ago
  One kid getting dinner is obviously no big deal, there is however something percieved to be wrong with it being normal for the rich to buy access for their kids to business opportunities. You are probably right that it is massive overanalysis considering the subject Correct. I don't think anyone here thinks Paul Graham is a bad man. I've never met him, but he seems like a good person who didn't intend to become a lightning rod. However, this was a dick move. If they're going to give away spots at a YC dinner to teenagers-- and I think that's a good idea-- then they should give them to winners of a computing, math, or science competition. Or young people in the computing field who overcame some disadvantage. This just proves that Silicon Valley has nothing left that can't be sold. Even the purr of a cat will eventually be metered and priced if these people can find a way. Let's assume that most people in YCombinator are among the best and the brightest. Well, now the time of top talent is a just another resource to be sold off to rich, entitled Joffreys. Speaking for top talent here, I'm fucking offended.
  - moocowduckquack 13y ago
    Even the purr of a cat will eventually be metered and priced if these people can find a way. Hey, isn't that the Uber kittens thing?
  - rajeevk 13y ago
    I agree with michaelochurch. I think this is less important that where the money will be spent than what kind of culture your are creating. In my observation, here in India (I am from India) that a child born in a poor family remains poor for whole of his life . There are exceptions, but this is true for most of the cases. In my opinion, the reason behind is that the society and culture makes feel a child of poor family that he/she is poor in all aspect of life. This goes to un-conscious mind of children that they are poor and they never come out this thought when they grow up and even if they are very very talented. Please do make such kind of culture where kids feel bad simply because their parent can't afford something for them. Please do not make kids feel that they belong to a poor family. I can see the current bid is $20K which is a big amount even for a middle class family. I know that world is not perfect, but we can try making it better at least by not playing the money games in kids matter. If you think further, this kind of culture is a way to society where only children of rich people will get proper healthcare, education etc.
  - mindslight 13y ago
    > winners of a computing, math, or science competition Because parental resources don't have extreme effects on these competitions as well? Or is it just an easy-to-propose feel-good alternative? Sheesh. pg obviously foresaw negative reactions, but this entire thread is simply ridiculous. Please just step back and ask yourselves how your comments affect yourselves. Is it really healthy to view access to YC as some kind of golden ticket? The YC application must basically be a free-to-enter lottery! (I must be pretty foolish for not playing all these years.) To the extent that silly valley is currently a bubble-fueled casino, complaining isn't going to put a stop to that, and dinner for a not-fully-formed teenager fulfilling their parents' expectations does little to augment that. And to the extent that there are still real companies being built on technological merit, some inspiration and accelerated social connections will do little to further disrupt that.
michaelochurch 13y ago
I used to hate when conservatives and Republicans made Real Americans arguments but this issue is a litmus test for whether one is on or not on the hot air balloon of the current, out-of-touch, Silicon Valley elite, or whether one is down here with the rest of us for whom gravity and reality apply. The New 1%, the out of touch types, look at things like this and think they are somehow progressive, based on an Econ-101 understanding of "efficiency" (which is not well-defined for sociological problems). The rest of us, who've actually had struggle in our lives, find it disgusting and perverse, because it makes a mockery of the hard work of such a massive number of people out there. Also, that scholarship is probably going to go to some middle-income-but-highly-connected child of a Stanford professor or a diplomat, and not an actual poor person. Just sayin'.
swalkergibson 13y ago
Glad to hear that you have taken up the cause outside of this context as well. As to what harm it does, the answer is none at all. In fact, it is an awesome opportunity for that person and I would have loved to have been in that position myself. However, the rub for me is not so much what harm does it do, but what good does it do to have one more rich kid at the dinner? Obviously, Bing gets a big ol' donation, so that is most certainly a huge benefit. I don't know, it just feels weird to me. How about sponsoring a programming puzzle (or series of puzzles) or something like that next time and the first person to solve it gets to go to the dinner? I would put $1,000 into that (as the Bing donation). Bing gets the money, the person who solved the problem is obviously interested in going, it takes care of the "rich parents" debate, and the overhead for managing such a contest is limited to the upfront creation of the question and parsing of the results. Truthfully, my personal feelings here are primarily rooted in envy. I did not have parents who had the ability to pay for such an opportunity, so had this auction applied to me, I would have been looking for a way to work my way in somehow.

by pg 13y ago

tnuc 13y ago

What harm does it do if only rich kids get to go to a YC dinner? A place for some more deserving poor kid would be nice.

moocowduckquack 13y ago

One kid getting dinner is obviously no big deal, there is however something percieved to be wrong with it being normal for the rich to buy access for their kids to business opportunities. You are probably right that it is massive overanalysis considering the subject, though at least it wasn't a free lunch.

michaelochurch 13y ago
One kid getting dinner is obviously no big deal, there is however something percieved to be wrong with it being normal for the rich to buy access for their kids to business opportunities. You are probably right that it is massive overanalysis considering the subject Correct. I don't think anyone here thinks Paul Graham is a bad man. I've never met him, but he seems like a good person who didn't intend to become a lightning rod. However, this was a dick move. If they're going to give away spots at a YC dinner to teenagers-- and I think that's a good idea-- then they should give them to winners of a computing, math, or science competition. Or young people in the computing field who overcame some disadvantage. This just proves that Silicon Valley has nothing left that can't be sold. Even the purr of a cat will eventually be metered and priced if these people can find a way. Let's assume that most people in YCombinator are among the best and the brightest. Well, now the time of top talent is a just another resource to be sold off to rich, entitled Joffreys. Speaking for top talent here, I'm fucking offended.
- moocowduckquack 13y ago
  Even the purr of a cat will eventually be metered and priced if these people can find a way. Hey, isn't that the Uber kittens thing?
- rajeevk 13y ago
  I agree with michaelochurch. I think this is less important that where the money will be spent than what kind of culture your are creating. In my observation, here in India (I am from India) that a child born in a poor family remains poor for whole of his life . There are exceptions, but this is true for most of the cases. In my opinion, the reason behind is that the society and culture makes feel a child of poor family that he/she is poor in all aspect of life. This goes to un-conscious mind of children that they are poor and they never come out this thought when they grow up and even if they are very very talented. Please do make such kind of culture where kids feel bad simply because their parent can't afford something for them. Please do not make kids feel that they belong to a poor family. I can see the current bid is $20K which is a big amount even for a middle class family. I know that world is not perfect, but we can try making it better at least by not playing the money games in kids matter. If you think further, this kind of culture is a way to society where only children of rich people will get proper healthcare, education etc.
- mindslight 13y ago
  > winners of a computing, math, or science competition Because parental resources don't have extreme effects on these competitions as well? Or is it just an easy-to-propose feel-good alternative? Sheesh. pg obviously foresaw negative reactions, but this entire thread is simply ridiculous. Please just step back and ask yourselves how your comments affect yourselves. Is it really healthy to view access to YC as some kind of golden ticket? The YC application must basically be a free-to-enter lottery! (I must be pretty foolish for not playing all these years.) To the extent that silly valley is currently a bubble-fueled casino, complaining isn't going to put a stop to that, and dinner for a not-fully-formed teenager fulfilling their parents' expectations does little to augment that. And to the extent that there are still real companies being built on technological merit, some inspiration and accelerated social connections will do little to further disrupt that.

michaelochurch 13y ago

I used to hate when conservatives and Republicans made Real Americans arguments but this issue is a litmus test for whether one is on or not on the hot air balloon of the current, out-of-touch, Silicon Valley elite, or whether one is down here with the rest of us for whom gravity and reality apply. The New 1%, the out of touch types, look at things like this and think they are somehow progressive, based on an Econ-101 understanding of "efficiency" (which is not well-defined for sociological problems). The rest of us, who've actually had struggle in our lives, find it disgusting and perverse, because it makes a mockery of the hard work of such a massive number of people out there. Also, that scholarship is probably going to go to some middle-income-but-highly-connected child of a Stanford professor or a diplomat, and not an actual poor person. Just sayin'.

swalkergibson 13y ago

Glad to hear that you have taken up the cause outside of this context as well. As to what harm it does, the answer is none at all. In fact, it is an awesome opportunity for that person and I would have loved to have been in that position myself. However, the rub for me is not so much what harm does it do, but what good does it do to have one more rich kid at the dinner? Obviously, Bing gets a big ol' donation, so that is most certainly a huge benefit. I don't know, it just feels weird to me. How about sponsoring a programming puzzle (or series of puzzles) or something like that next time and the first person to solve it gets to go to the dinner? I would put $1,000 into that (as the Bing donation). Bing gets the money, the person who solved the problem is obviously interested in going, it takes care of the "rich parents" debate, and the overhead for managing such a contest is limited to the upfront creation of the question and parsing of the results. Truthfully, my personal feelings here are primarily rooted in envy. I did not have parents who had the ability to pay for such an opportunity, so had this auction applied to me, I would have been looking for a way to work my way in somehow.