3 ms·

1. Doctors are people like any other. But they've spent years specializing in evidence based medicine. They aren't perfect. No. But they are the best we have.

1. Doctors are people like any other. But they've spent years specializing in evidence based medicine. They aren't perfect. No. But they are the best we have. 2. The far bigger problem is doctors order tests that wouldn't change treatment but rather help avoid malpractice. 3. The quote -- every time I read it -- makes me laugh because it's so disingenuous. My wife had a week of dietary training in med school. You know what else she had a week of? Renal. Cardiology. etc. If you think diet and exercise are the only--or even the most effective--means of lowering morbidity for chd (which is what OP is worried about) you'd also be wrong. So I'm not really sure why OP should be looking for a dietary specialist vs a cardiologist.

dragonwriter 13y ago
> Doctors are people like any other. But they've spent years specializing in evidence based medicine. Evidence-based medicine [1] as a norm is actually a surprisingly new thing. Assuming that because someone is a doctor they've "spent years specializing" in it is probably optimistic. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence-based_medicine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence-based_medicine
- bdesimone 13y ago
  EB as a term is new, the specialization is not. Most here are engineers with a BS/BA. Maybe a MA. And fewer still with a PhD. Not that education is everything, but it's certainly "years specializing." Compare that to the track of a typical specialist md: After your undergrad degree you've got.... 4 years in med school. 4-6 years in residency. Plus a 1-3 year fellowship. Long story short, what's the credible alternative to relying on multiple expert opinions? Are educated (engineers/lawyers/etc) ordering tests based on research they really don't understand on themselves a better? By what evidence?
Noxchi 13y ago
#3 is totally wrong. First of all, if your wife graduated from med school, she should have taken the Hippocratic oath. An oath written by the guy considered the father of western medicine. You know what he had to say about diet? “Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food” He also said something along the lines of "if you don't know diet you can't call yourself a doctor" but I can't find the exact quote. >If you think diet and exercise are the only--or even the most effective--means of lowering morbidity for chd (which is what OP is worried about) you'd also be wrong. Actually, you'd be wrong. Consider a clinical study carried out by the inventor of bypass surgery and another doctor, in the best heart hospital in the world considered by US News & World Report. The study had very sick heart disease patients, who were told they had a year to live by their cardiologists, change their diet. 23 opted in for the study but only 18 chose to continue with the diet after a couple months. Those 18 patients are still alive today 20 years later, and several had an angioplasty done giving photographic proof their plaque buildup had cleared out. The ones who dropped out died shorty after. The 18 never had a heart attack after they changed their diets, while before they did they had a combined 49 coronary events (that's ~3 heart related emergencies per person average).
- Evgeny 13y ago
  Actually, you'd be wrong. Consider a clinical study carried out by the inventor of bypass surgery and another doctor, in the best heart hospital in the world considered by US News & World Report. It would be so much easier if you could provide some names, or better - the title of the study. I'd like to read it, but can't find it easily. The inventor of the bypass surgery appears to be Michael E. DeBakey, but which of his publications should I read? Thank you.
- bdesimone 13y ago
  What are you talking about? My #3 point was not that dietary health isn't important. It IS important. It's as important as cardiology, renal, etc in the curriculum. That it's "only" one week is shouldn't be taken (and is repeatedly put forth as, as the OP did) proof of how physicians don't care/ aren't trained in diet. What does your rant about saying the hippocratic oath have to do with anything? What does that have to do with the amount of emphasis the modern medical education puts on health through diet? Of course food should be your medicine. Natural plants are also the base for some ~70% of our drugs. It's just not the only tool in the toolbox. Then you accidentally support my earlier point that the average joe is godawful self-treating/diagnosing based on their own research. Thanks.

dragonwriter 13y ago

> Doctors are people like any other. But they've spent years specializing in evidence based medicine. Evidence-based medicine [1] as a norm is actually a surprisingly new thing. Assuming that because someone is a doctor they've "spent years specializing" in it is probably optimistic. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence-based_medicine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence-based_medicine

bdesimone 13y ago
EB as a term is new, the specialization is not. Most here are engineers with a BS/BA. Maybe a MA. And fewer still with a PhD. Not that education is everything, but it's certainly "years specializing." Compare that to the track of a typical specialist md: After your undergrad degree you've got.... 4 years in med school. 4-6 years in residency. Plus a 1-3 year fellowship. Long story short, what's the credible alternative to relying on multiple expert opinions? Are educated (engineers/lawyers/etc) ordering tests based on research they really don't understand on themselves a better? By what evidence?

Noxchi 13y ago

#3 is totally wrong. First of all, if your wife graduated from med school, she should have taken the Hippocratic oath. An oath written by the guy considered the father of western medicine. You know what he had to say about diet? “Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food” He also said something along the lines of "if you don't know diet you can't call yourself a doctor" but I can't find the exact quote. >If you think diet and exercise are the only--or even the most effective--means of lowering morbidity for chd (which is what OP is worried about) you'd also be wrong. Actually, you'd be wrong. Consider a clinical study carried out by the inventor of bypass surgery and another doctor, in the best heart hospital in the world considered by US News & World Report. The study had very sick heart disease patients, who were told they had a year to live by their cardiologists, change their diet. 23 opted in for the study but only 18 chose to continue with the diet after a couple months. Those 18 patients are still alive today 20 years later, and several had an angioplasty done giving photographic proof their plaque buildup had cleared out. The ones who dropped out died shorty after. The 18 never had a heart attack after they changed their diets, while before they did they had a combined 49 coronary events (that's ~3 heart related emergencies per person average).

Evgeny 13y ago
Actually, you'd be wrong. Consider a clinical study carried out by the inventor of bypass surgery and another doctor, in the best heart hospital in the world considered by US News & World Report. It would be so much easier if you could provide some names, or better - the title of the study. I'd like to read it, but can't find it easily. The inventor of the bypass surgery appears to be Michael E. DeBakey, but which of his publications should I read? Thank you.
bdesimone 13y ago
What are you talking about? My #3 point was not that dietary health isn't important. It IS important. It's as important as cardiology, renal, etc in the curriculum. That it's "only" one week is shouldn't be taken (and is repeatedly put forth as, as the OP did) proof of how physicians don't care/ aren't trained in diet. What does your rant about saying the hippocratic oath have to do with anything? What does that have to do with the amount of emphasis the modern medical education puts on health through diet? Of course food should be your medicine. Natural plants are also the base for some ~70% of our drugs. It's just not the only tool in the toolbox. Then you accidentally support my earlier point that the average joe is godawful self-treating/diagnosing based on their own research. Thanks.