5 ms·

Since there will no doubt be a lot of the predictable complaint that this gives an advantage to the kids of people rich enough to buy it, I want to make it clea

by pg 13y ago

Since there will no doubt be a lot of the predictable complaint that this gives an advantage to the kids of people rich enough to buy it, I want to make it clear that this auction is to fund scholarships to the Bing nursery school. Since going to Bing helps kids a lot more than going to a YC dinner would, it's a net win for parents with less money. We knew when we decided to offer this item for auction that people would give us grief about it. But we're happy to take the heat to give more kids the opportunity to attend Bing.

TrainedMonkey 13y ago
"No good deed goes unpunished". I feel really sorry that current state of affairs requires you to make this disclosure for donating something.
- larrys 13y ago
  No more than when someone needs to say "with all due respect" before offering criticism. It's a prophylactic way of acknowledging the reality of what some people will think (which would be valid as they might jump to conclusions) and warding or dulling the harshness.
Samuel_Michon 13y ago
“Bing was constructed as a laboratory school with a grant from the National Science Foundation and a gift from Dr. Peter S. Bing and his mother, Mrs. Anna Bing Arnold.” I’m glad I went on DDG before assuming Microsoft paid to name a nursery school after its advertising business.
swalkergibson 13y ago
Do you feel that the concerns expressed are not legitimate? If attending Bing is more beneficial than a YC dinner, why not make an unconditional donation to Bing and then open up these dinners to teenagers willing to apply/write an essay for them, regardless of ability to pay? It would have the added benefit of self-selecting out those people whose parents think it is a good idea for them to go to such a dinner and reserve it for only those who are interested. Obviously, any donation to Bing is better than no donation to Bing, and the reality is that it probably is a net win for the parents with less money, but it seems like it could be even better refined and ensure that there are fewer cheap-shots like in the thread below.
- larrys 13y ago
  "why not make an unconditional donation to Bing and then open up these dinners to teenagers willing to apply/write an essay for them, regardless of ability to pay?" What was done was easy to do. Simple decision "yes or no" here is the benefit. [1] What you are asking would require meetings, details and more thought amongst people who don't really have the time for that. [1] Keep that in mind when you are doing business with people. Make it simple for them to agree and require no effort on their part (or at least as little as possible). If you want to delay decision making do the opposite. If you want to delay it even more give them an assignment to complete (like a 3 page list of questions that they need to answer before you will take their money). Friction kills deals just like time does.
  - swalkergibson 13y ago
    > If you want to delay it even more give them an assignment to complete (like a 3 page list of questions that they need to answer before you will take their money). In my opinion, you are comparing apples to oranges. This is not like putting up a 12 field registration/payment form for your web app, it is asking people who are interested in getting access to one of these dinners to express why they think they are worthy of attending. The perceived value is high enough such that you should theoretically only be reading essays from people who took the time and made the effort to apply. You are absolutely right, this is the easiest way, and it is by no means a bad idea. Donating to charity in anyway is a great idea. However, the virtue of that fact does not automatically mean that the method for raising the money to be donated was intrinsically great. I must note that my opinion is colored by the fact that I would have loved to attend one of these dinners myself during my teen years, but my parents (nor myself) could absolutely not afford to have paid for it, but I would have been happy to compete for the spot on other criteria.
    - ericd 13y ago
      I'm pretty sure the YC partners don't have the time to comb through dinner attendance applications and manage the rest of that, unfortunately. Maybe they could outsource that, though.
moocowduckquack 13y ago
Is your auction and seems fairly harmless on the scale of things, but surely this prize is expressly intended to give an advantage to the kids of people rich enough to buy it otherwise you would presumably have chosen to auction off a different prize.
- abstractbill 13y ago
  ...otherwise you would presumably have chosen to auction off a different prize. Do you have something in mind? An invite to a YC dinner is free and, much more importantly, costs nobody at YC very much time.
  - moocowduckquack 13y ago
    An invite to a YC dinner is free The catering isn't. Besides, my point wasn't about suggesting something else, it was just remarking that the whole intent of auctioning access to a business dinner is to sell some kind of percieved power to those who can afford it. If there wasn't percieved power there, then the prize wouldn't raise much money. Now it could also be that this prize was chosen precisely because it counterpoints the eventual use of the money, which would be as good a reason as any. At the end of the day there are many ways of getting rich people to pay into charity and this is just one of them, is also probably quite effective as it taps into the whole dynasty thing.
conanbatt 13y ago
I just wished there was a solution to this that made everyone happy. The mere idea of bestowing knowledge to someone who has a resource advantage creates discomfort. I know the amount of places is limited, but would it be possible for the next time to offer a differential attendance? For example, donators get front-seats and the non-resourceful can participate farther-back or standing up, a la kickstarter.
gojomo 13y ago
I'm OK with auctions, price-based-rationing of scarce goods, and your analysis of the net good this will do. But, you might also consider an occasional raffle'd spot, or a spot otherwise drawn from an eligibility pool with a lower economic barrier-to-entry. You might raise as much or more, and it would be easier to mix in things like donated-tickets or third-party-sponsored-tickets. And, the pool of losing-entries would itself be valuable, as a community with expressed interest in YC. Perhaps the drawing-winner(s) and some volunteer YCers could throw a followup separate, larger-audience event for them: passing on the good wisdom and fortune, in the YC style.
morgante 13y ago
That's all well and good, but couldn't even more net social utility be created by a better auction? This perpetuates generational wealth rather than giving an opportunity to someone who earned it for themselves. At the very least, couldn't you auction off a seat to adults? At least that would be people using their own money to buy themselves advantages rather than yet another example of parents buying significant advantages for their children. Maybe I'm just bitter because I'm 20 and my parents could never afford to pay $20,000. I don't see why you should purposefully give someone else whose parents could yet another advantage in life. PS. To put my money where my mouth is, I'd donate $1,000 of my own money to Watsi or another charity of your choice if it buys a seat.

by pg 13y ago

TrainedMonkey 13y ago

"No good deed goes unpunished". I feel really sorry that current state of affairs requires you to make this disclosure for donating something.

larrys 13y ago
No more than when someone needs to say "with all due respect" before offering criticism. It's a prophylactic way of acknowledging the reality of what some people will think (which would be valid as they might jump to conclusions) and warding or dulling the harshness.

Samuel_Michon 13y ago

“Bing was constructed as a laboratory school with a grant from the National Science Foundation and a gift from Dr. Peter S. Bing and his mother, Mrs. Anna Bing Arnold.” I’m glad I went on DDG before assuming Microsoft paid to name a nursery school after its advertising business.

swalkergibson 13y ago

Do you feel that the concerns expressed are not legitimate? If attending Bing is more beneficial than a YC dinner, why not make an unconditional donation to Bing and then open up these dinners to teenagers willing to apply/write an essay for them, regardless of ability to pay? It would have the added benefit of self-selecting out those people whose parents think it is a good idea for them to go to such a dinner and reserve it for only those who are interested. Obviously, any donation to Bing is better than no donation to Bing, and the reality is that it probably is a net win for the parents with less money, but it seems like it could be even better refined and ensure that there are fewer cheap-shots like in the thread below.

larrys 13y ago
"why not make an unconditional donation to Bing and then open up these dinners to teenagers willing to apply/write an essay for them, regardless of ability to pay?" What was done was easy to do. Simple decision "yes or no" here is the benefit. [1] What you are asking would require meetings, details and more thought amongst people who don't really have the time for that. [1] Keep that in mind when you are doing business with people. Make it simple for them to agree and require no effort on their part (or at least as little as possible). If you want to delay decision making do the opposite. If you want to delay it even more give them an assignment to complete (like a 3 page list of questions that they need to answer before you will take their money). Friction kills deals just like time does.
- swalkergibson 13y ago
  > If you want to delay it even more give them an assignment to complete (like a 3 page list of questions that they need to answer before you will take their money). In my opinion, you are comparing apples to oranges. This is not like putting up a 12 field registration/payment form for your web app, it is asking people who are interested in getting access to one of these dinners to express why they think they are worthy of attending. The perceived value is high enough such that you should theoretically only be reading essays from people who took the time and made the effort to apply. You are absolutely right, this is the easiest way, and it is by no means a bad idea. Donating to charity in anyway is a great idea. However, the virtue of that fact does not automatically mean that the method for raising the money to be donated was intrinsically great. I must note that my opinion is colored by the fact that I would have loved to attend one of these dinners myself during my teen years, but my parents (nor myself) could absolutely not afford to have paid for it, but I would have been happy to compete for the spot on other criteria.
  - ericd 13y ago
    I'm pretty sure the YC partners don't have the time to comb through dinner attendance applications and manage the rest of that, unfortunately. Maybe they could outsource that, though.

moocowduckquack 13y ago

Is your auction and seems fairly harmless on the scale of things, but surely this prize is expressly intended to give an advantage to the kids of people rich enough to buy it otherwise you would presumably have chosen to auction off a different prize.

abstractbill 13y ago
...otherwise you would presumably have chosen to auction off a different prize. Do you have something in mind? An invite to a YC dinner is free and, much more importantly, costs nobody at YC very much time.
- moocowduckquack 13y ago
  An invite to a YC dinner is free The catering isn't. Besides, my point wasn't about suggesting something else, it was just remarking that the whole intent of auctioning access to a business dinner is to sell some kind of percieved power to those who can afford it. If there wasn't percieved power there, then the prize wouldn't raise much money. Now it could also be that this prize was chosen precisely because it counterpoints the eventual use of the money, which would be as good a reason as any. At the end of the day there are many ways of getting rich people to pay into charity and this is just one of them, is also probably quite effective as it taps into the whole dynasty thing.

conanbatt 13y ago

I just wished there was a solution to this that made everyone happy. The mere idea of bestowing knowledge to someone who has a resource advantage creates discomfort. I know the amount of places is limited, but would it be possible for the next time to offer a differential attendance? For example, donators get front-seats and the non-resourceful can participate farther-back or standing up, a la kickstarter.

gojomo 13y ago

I'm OK with auctions, price-based-rationing of scarce goods, and your analysis of the net good this will do. But, you might also consider an occasional raffle'd spot, or a spot otherwise drawn from an eligibility pool with a lower economic barrier-to-entry. You might raise as much or more, and it would be easier to mix in things like donated-tickets or third-party-sponsored-tickets. And, the pool of losing-entries would itself be valuable, as a community with expressed interest in YC. Perhaps the drawing-winner(s) and some volunteer YCers could throw a followup separate, larger-audience event for them: passing on the good wisdom and fortune, in the YC style.

morgante 13y ago

That's all well and good, but couldn't even more net social utility be created by a better auction? This perpetuates generational wealth rather than giving an opportunity to someone who earned it for themselves. At the very least, couldn't you auction off a seat to adults? At least that would be people using their own money to buy themselves advantages rather than yet another example of parents buying significant advantages for their children. Maybe I'm just bitter because I'm 20 and my parents could never afford to pay $20,000. I don't see why you should purposefully give someone else whose parents could yet another advantage in life. PS. To put my money where my mouth is, I'd donate $1,000 of my own money to Watsi or another charity of your choice if it buys a seat.