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The difference is that because we're using Rainforest in our build process we cannot deploy if Rainforest itself doesn't work... so it's a bit more 'extreme' th

The difference is that because we're using Rainforest in our build process we cannot deploy if Rainforest itself doesn't work... so it's a bit more 'extreme' than regular dogfooding.

bronson 13y ago
That sounds exactly like dogfooding to me. What is regular dogfooding?
- whatshisface 13y ago
  In regular dogfooding, you would give up if your product was so bad it prevented you from working on anything. I think the extreme here means they are trying to make failures as painful for themselves as possible, even if doing so makes it harder to resolve those failures.
- fredsters_s 13y ago
  It's probably instructive to think about the type of product that you'd be dogfooding. For most startups, dogfooding is a process of heavily using your own product to figure out what works and what doesn't and better understand the painpoints in the product from your customer's perspective. That process changes quite significantly - what we're calling 'extreme' dogfooding - when the product you are dogfooding is a crucial part of your build process, because you cannot deploy if the product isn't working properly, whereas with most products that aren't developer tools a problem found through dogfooding isn't going to do something as drastic as preventing your deploy :)
  - biot 13y ago
    The nature of your product means that you are able to use the product as part of creating the product. Much like how a trucking company uses its own trucks to deliver the parts needed to build/repair those same trucks. Or how gcc is used to build gcc. What you call "extreme dogfooding" is more like half plain old dogfooding and half bootstrapping.
    - fredsters_s 13y ago
      It's got nothing to do with bootstrapping.
      - biot 13y ago
        It's quite similar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bootstrapping_(compilers) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bootstrapping_(compilers) The process of getting a compiler to compile itself is not unlike your process of using Rainforest as part of the build process for Rainforest.
sbov 13y ago
I assume there's some simple bypass, otherwise this seems like an accident waiting to happen.
- ukd1 13y ago
  It's on a different branch; develop gets tested by master, before it's promoted :)
wbeckler 13y ago
Then I guess we used "extreme dogfooding" with our travel company. We colocated other roles with our offshore developers and we used our own site (http://AllTheRooms.com http://AllTheRooms.com) to find accommodations for designers and product managers who traveled to be with the devs in Medellin, Colombia. So, if the site didn't work it would have been pretty painful not having a place to stay.
- fredsters_s 13y ago
  Exactly.

The difference is that because we're using Rainforest in our build process we cannot deploy if Rainforest itself doesn't work... so it's a bit more 'extreme' than regular dogfooding.

bronson 13y ago

That sounds exactly like dogfooding to me. What is regular dogfooding?

whatshisface 13y ago
In regular dogfooding, you would give up if your product was so bad it prevented you from working on anything. I think the extreme here means they are trying to make failures as painful for themselves as possible, even if doing so makes it harder to resolve those failures.
fredsters_s 13y ago
It's probably instructive to think about the type of product that you'd be dogfooding. For most startups, dogfooding is a process of heavily using your own product to figure out what works and what doesn't and better understand the painpoints in the product from your customer's perspective. That process changes quite significantly - what we're calling 'extreme' dogfooding - when the product you are dogfooding is a crucial part of your build process, because you cannot deploy if the product isn't working properly, whereas with most products that aren't developer tools a problem found through dogfooding isn't going to do something as drastic as preventing your deploy :)
- biot 13y ago
  The nature of your product means that you are able to use the product as part of creating the product. Much like how a trucking company uses its own trucks to deliver the parts needed to build/repair those same trucks. Or how gcc is used to build gcc. What you call "extreme dogfooding" is more like half plain old dogfooding and half bootstrapping.
  - fredsters_s 13y ago
    It's got nothing to do with bootstrapping.
    - biot 13y ago
      It's quite similar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bootstrapping_(compilers) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bootstrapping_(compilers) The process of getting a compiler to compile itself is not unlike your process of using Rainforest as part of the build process for Rainforest.

sbov 13y ago

I assume there's some simple bypass, otherwise this seems like an accident waiting to happen.

ukd1 13y ago
It's on a different branch; develop gets tested by master, before it's promoted :)

wbeckler 13y ago

Then I guess we used "extreme dogfooding" with our travel company. We colocated other roles with our offshore developers and we used our own site (http://AllTheRooms.com http://AllTheRooms.com) to find accommodations for designers and product managers who traveled to be with the devs in Medellin, Colombia. So, if the site didn't work it would have been pretty painful not having a place to stay.

fredsters_s 13y ago
Exactly.