4 ms·

How is it cynical to price the health of an organization's key person into its value?

by DavidSJ 17y ago

sho 17y ago
Because it's basically placing monetary bets on another human being's health. Yeah, I know he's the key person, I know why they do it, I just think it's depressing that our society still hasn't risen above putting a dollar value on life.
- gizmo 17y ago
  Why should we rise above it? What's wrong with estimating somebody's worth in dollars?
  - sho 17y ago
    I've written and deleted about 3 attempts at answering that question, not happy with any of them and obviously I have to get my thoughts in order. It's quite the "question for the ages" : D I'll get back to you ...
    - gizmo 17y ago
      Typically, this means you have an pre-conceived opinion, and are looking for a rationalization.
      - sho 17y ago
        Or it could mean that I have a lot of complex thoughts on the matter, and it will take some time to distil them into a pithy comment. That's the problem with rapid-fire sites like this, the pressure is on to respond quickly, before the thread sinks into oblivion - you have actually asked an interesting question and I would like to give it some thought.
        gizmo 17y ago
        Of course you can have complex thoughts on the matter. That's why I said "typically". I didn't make any kind of judgment. From my own experience I know that if I have an opinion but don't have the supporting arguments readily available my opinion is either wrong, or right only by coincidence. These arguments don't do well in sound-byte sized chunks though, I grant you that.
  - ubernostrum 17y ago
    One explanation is that doing so means treating people as a means to your ends, rather than as ends in themselves. Which is somewhat frowned upon in certain ethical traditions.
  - jodrellblank 17y ago
    If I have a widget that I'll sell to you for $4 then it's worth $4 to me. If you'll only pay $2 for it then it's worth $2 to you. To whom is a human worth money? You can't own people, can't buy or sell them. Can't recreate them, can't even get an accurate clone. You can talk about a sportsperson's value to their team in terms of how much money they bring in in ticket sales, how much sponsorship, how much media attention, how much another team will pay for them. But the problem is when lots of money is involved, people care more for the money than the person. I don't have a problem with people trading on Apple stock and factoring in SJ's health at some level. I do have a problem when it pushes further and further towards SJ being treated as just another asset, some legal and medical details to be pried through, some news announcements to be analysed, some blood pressure and heart rate figures to be tracking. Picking apart the Golden Goose to try and find where the Golden Eggs are hidden? Tearing up the Mona Lisa to find which brushstroke made it worth so much? Pulling down the Eiffel tower to see if an Operah Tower in the same place would have as much impact? If he wasn't already a health fan, would the world be pushing him to alter his diet? His exercise regime? "In a bowel movement estimated to be worth half a million dollars this morning, SJ's saturated fat absorption levels were up 13% on last week (full analysis here), SJ didn't respond to a request for comment. Unusually, he looked in the mirror for 6% longer than average over the last three months, experts have raised concerns over his increasing vanity assessment index especially when taken into account his recent announcement "I had a great night's sleep last night" to his wife over breakfast, he didn't respond to 18 phonecalls for comment on that either". Would we be designing every part of his life and forcing him to live as we think will maximise AAPL profit, restricting and shaping like a human veal calf? What's right with estimating somebody's worth in dollars? Why should you be able to profit from speculating on someone elses work? Why should people who have no choice where they are born be forced to be judged within the limits of someone elses monetary system?
    - gizmo 17y ago
      It doesn't need to be that complex. For every million dollars the government puts into hospitals/medicare a bunch of lives are saved. There are diminishing returns, however, and at some point you have to say, okay, that's enough, let's put some money into education instead. You have to find some kind of balance, and the more you put in education the fewer lives you can save in hospitals. The only sensible way (I can think of) to find the right balance is by crunching the numbers. Saving a life for $1000? That's only 20 text books, definitely a good deal. Saving a life for a million? That's 20 scholarships. A life isn't worth that much. Unless you're Steve.
- johnnybgoode 17y ago
  Ultimately, it's just a bunch of guesses anyway. It's not a top-down pronouncement of the value of Steve Jobs's life. If you want the theoretical case for doing this, it's supposed to assist in efficient resource allocation, which helps all of society. In other words, if we ever really "rise above" this sort of thing we'll all be poorer.
- philwelch 17y ago
  The value of Steve's life is incalculable, even priceless, but the value of his continued tenure at Apple indeed has a dollar value. This is what the stock market is concerned about.
anigbrowl 17y ago
You wait until someone's aggressively shorting DavidSJ.com.
- fallentimes 17y ago
  That's all part of being a public company and a negative DavidSJ accepted.
mironathetin 17y ago
Its not cynical. You don't invest in companies, you invest in their leaders.

How is it cynical to price the health of an organization's key person into its value?

by DavidSJ 17y ago

How is it cynical to price the health of an organization's key person into its value?

sho 17y ago

Because it's basically placing monetary bets on another human being's health. Yeah, I know he's the key person, I know why they do it, I just think it's depressing that our society still hasn't risen above putting a dollar value on life.

gizmo 17y ago
Why should we rise above it? What's wrong with estimating somebody's worth in dollars?
- sho 17y ago
  I've written and deleted about 3 attempts at answering that question, not happy with any of them and obviously I have to get my thoughts in order. It's quite the "question for the ages" : D I'll get back to you ...
  - gizmo 17y ago
    Typically, this means you have an pre-conceived opinion, and are looking for a rationalization.
    - sho 17y ago
      Or it could mean that I have a lot of complex thoughts on the matter, and it will take some time to distil them into a pithy comment. That's the problem with rapid-fire sites like this, the pressure is on to respond quickly, before the thread sinks into oblivion - you have actually asked an interesting question and I would like to give it some thought.
      - gizmo 17y ago
        Of course you can have complex thoughts on the matter. That's why I said "typically". I didn't make any kind of judgment. From my own experience I know that if I have an opinion but don't have the supporting arguments readily available my opinion is either wrong, or right only by coincidence. These arguments don't do well in sound-byte sized chunks though, I grant you that.
- ubernostrum 17y ago
  One explanation is that doing so means treating people as a means to your ends, rather than as ends in themselves. Which is somewhat frowned upon in certain ethical traditions.
- jodrellblank 17y ago
  If I have a widget that I'll sell to you for $4 then it's worth $4 to me. If you'll only pay $2 for it then it's worth $2 to you. To whom is a human worth money? You can't own people, can't buy or sell them. Can't recreate them, can't even get an accurate clone. You can talk about a sportsperson's value to their team in terms of how much money they bring in in ticket sales, how much sponsorship, how much media attention, how much another team will pay for them. But the problem is when lots of money is involved, people care more for the money than the person. I don't have a problem with people trading on Apple stock and factoring in SJ's health at some level. I do have a problem when it pushes further and further towards SJ being treated as just another asset, some legal and medical details to be pried through, some news announcements to be analysed, some blood pressure and heart rate figures to be tracking. Picking apart the Golden Goose to try and find where the Golden Eggs are hidden? Tearing up the Mona Lisa to find which brushstroke made it worth so much? Pulling down the Eiffel tower to see if an Operah Tower in the same place would have as much impact? If he wasn't already a health fan, would the world be pushing him to alter his diet? His exercise regime? "In a bowel movement estimated to be worth half a million dollars this morning, SJ's saturated fat absorption levels were up 13% on last week (full analysis here), SJ didn't respond to a request for comment. Unusually, he looked in the mirror for 6% longer than average over the last three months, experts have raised concerns over his increasing vanity assessment index especially when taken into account his recent announcement "I had a great night's sleep last night" to his wife over breakfast, he didn't respond to 18 phonecalls for comment on that either". Would we be designing every part of his life and forcing him to live as we think will maximise AAPL profit, restricting and shaping like a human veal calf? What's right with estimating somebody's worth in dollars? Why should you be able to profit from speculating on someone elses work? Why should people who have no choice where they are born be forced to be judged within the limits of someone elses monetary system?
  - gizmo 17y ago
    It doesn't need to be that complex. For every million dollars the government puts into hospitals/medicare a bunch of lives are saved. There are diminishing returns, however, and at some point you have to say, okay, that's enough, let's put some money into education instead. You have to find some kind of balance, and the more you put in education the fewer lives you can save in hospitals. The only sensible way (I can think of) to find the right balance is by crunching the numbers. Saving a life for $1000? That's only 20 text books, definitely a good deal. Saving a life for a million? That's 20 scholarships. A life isn't worth that much. Unless you're Steve.
johnnybgoode 17y ago
Ultimately, it's just a bunch of guesses anyway. It's not a top-down pronouncement of the value of Steve Jobs's life. If you want the theoretical case for doing this, it's supposed to assist in efficient resource allocation, which helps all of society. In other words, if we ever really "rise above" this sort of thing we'll all be poorer.
philwelch 17y ago
The value of Steve's life is incalculable, even priceless, but the value of his continued tenure at Apple indeed has a dollar value. This is what the stock market is concerned about.

anigbrowl 17y ago

You wait until someone's aggressively shorting DavidSJ.com.

fallentimes 17y ago
That's all part of being a public company and a negative DavidSJ accepted.

mironathetin 17y ago

Its not cynical. You don't invest in companies, you invest in their leaders.