4 ms·

It's not that simple though. There's quite a few people who are not at risk of ever getting malaria, but who don't have any decent internet access. So for them,

It's not that simple though. There's quite a few people who are not at risk of ever getting malaria, but who don't have any decent internet access. So for them, curing malaria will make 0 difference to their life. Also, since when has Microsoft or Bill Gates ever been sold on the idea of the internet as a good thing?

tunesmith 13y ago
Not sure what your point here is, but it kind of reads as if you're saying that the life of someone on the verge of internet access is more valuable that that of someone on the verge of fatal malaria.
- bolder88 13y ago
  Point is they're two separate groups of people. From the majority of people from 1st world countries, it is more valuable. I'm never going to meet anyone who has had malaria, or even anyone who knows someone who has had maleria. It's a non issue. But I'll certainly experience and interact with a larger internet population.
  - Volpe 13y ago
    wow. So because you'll never see it, it isn't a problem. You getting cheap/free internet is more important than millions of people dying [1]... [1] http://www.who.int/features/factfiles/malaria/en/ http://www.who.int/features/factfiles/malaria/en/
    - vidarh 13y ago
      He's being realistic. How many of us are donating even percent of our income towards malaria eradication? Eradicating malaria has been possible for decades. It has not happened because people amongst others continues to prioritize luxuries over other peoples lives. We can pretend we're not amongst "those people", but the fact we're spending time on HN debating this matter instead of doing something about it pretty much demonstrate that most of us are.
      - tunesmith 13y ago
        I don't know about "realistic", but it expresses a value other than "all lives are created equal". I think if someone has a value other than "all lives are created equal", then focusing on expanding internet usage ahead of malaria eradication is a conclusion that could be deduced from that (when combined with other values we might all share). The problem is that all sorts of other whacked conclusions can also be deduced from "not all lives are created equal", so you need a whole other host of values to protect against that. However, I don't think the converse is true. If someone is focusing on expanding internet ahead of eradicating malaria, it doesn't necessarily mean they don't believe "all lives are created equal". It could instead mean they are simply ignorant, which is not bad if they are open to perspective. That is kind of Gates' point - he's being evangelical about pointing out that if you have that value, you should probably pay attention to things like malaria. Other sources point out the same thing. Check various conversations over at lesswrong, or check out the top-rated charities at givewell.org, or just google the many arguments on efficient charity-giving.
        bolder88 13y ago
        All lives are not created equal. That's just bs. Of course not all lives are created equal. For example if I had to pick between the lives of Einstein and Hitler, I'd pick Einstein.
        Volpe 13y ago
        You are confusing the meaning of life. Not the some of their experience, but the beating of their heart. Life is equal, the world over.
        bolder88 13y ago
        Some people are born with good genes, intelligence, money, muscles, height, amazing good looks, etc etc Some aren't. Life is certainly not, in any way equal, and it's idiocy to pretend it is. We are all born with totally different strengths and weaknesses, and that's what makes us unique, and should be celebrated. Not denied.
  - vidarh 13y ago
    > I'm never going to meet anyone who has had malaria You likely have done so, many times. For many countries malaria is so endemic that most people have had it once or more (malaria is not very lethal if you have access to the right medicines; the problem is a lot of people don't). Except for people living in places with extremely low immigration levels, it is unlikely that you'll go very long before coming across someone who have had malaria. > , or even anyone who knows someone who has had maleria. Yeah, right.
jbrooksuk 13y ago
Sure, they won't get Internet Access, but they'll definitely have a happier life not being ill. I know I'd rather be healthier than have internet.
- mtgx 13y ago
  So if the government knocks down on your door tomorrow and says: "Look, you have two choices, we can help you not get cancer, and we'll supply you with daily pills for the rest of your life, but you will not be allowed to have Internet access ever again, or you can choose Internet access, and we won't give you the cancer-fighting pills anymore". You're 30 years old. Go. Which do you choose?
  - jbrooksuk 13y ago
    The pills.
    - bolder88 13y ago
      That's an insane choice. Do you really value raw lifespan over quality of life?
      - asadlionpk 13y ago
        so you would risk having cancer for internet access? Does internet define your quality of life?
        bolder88 13y ago
        Of course it does. I use the internet to generate money.
        jbrooksuk 13y ago
        So do I, but if the pills make me healthy enough to go and do work elsewhere, then so be it.

tunesmith 13y ago

Not sure what your point here is, but it kind of reads as if you're saying that the life of someone on the verge of internet access is more valuable that that of someone on the verge of fatal malaria.

bolder88 13y ago
Point is they're two separate groups of people. From the majority of people from 1st world countries, it is more valuable. I'm never going to meet anyone who has had malaria, or even anyone who knows someone who has had maleria. It's a non issue. But I'll certainly experience and interact with a larger internet population.
- Volpe 13y ago
  wow. So because you'll never see it, it isn't a problem. You getting cheap/free internet is more important than millions of people dying [1]... [1] http://www.who.int/features/factfiles/malaria/en/ http://www.who.int/features/factfiles/malaria/en/
  - vidarh 13y ago
    He's being realistic. How many of us are donating even percent of our income towards malaria eradication? Eradicating malaria has been possible for decades. It has not happened because people amongst others continues to prioritize luxuries over other peoples lives. We can pretend we're not amongst "those people", but the fact we're spending time on HN debating this matter instead of doing something about it pretty much demonstrate that most of us are.
    - tunesmith 13y ago
      I don't know about "realistic", but it expresses a value other than "all lives are created equal". I think if someone has a value other than "all lives are created equal", then focusing on expanding internet usage ahead of malaria eradication is a conclusion that could be deduced from that (when combined with other values we might all share). The problem is that all sorts of other whacked conclusions can also be deduced from "not all lives are created equal", so you need a whole other host of values to protect against that. However, I don't think the converse is true. If someone is focusing on expanding internet ahead of eradicating malaria, it doesn't necessarily mean they don't believe "all lives are created equal". It could instead mean they are simply ignorant, which is not bad if they are open to perspective. That is kind of Gates' point - he's being evangelical about pointing out that if you have that value, you should probably pay attention to things like malaria. Other sources point out the same thing. Check various conversations over at lesswrong, or check out the top-rated charities at givewell.org, or just google the many arguments on efficient charity-giving.
      - bolder88 13y ago
        All lives are not created equal. That's just bs. Of course not all lives are created equal. For example if I had to pick between the lives of Einstein and Hitler, I'd pick Einstein.
        Volpe 13y ago
        You are confusing the meaning of life. Not the some of their experience, but the beating of their heart. Life is equal, the world over.
        bolder88 13y ago
        Some people are born with good genes, intelligence, money, muscles, height, amazing good looks, etc etc Some aren't. Life is certainly not, in any way equal, and it's idiocy to pretend it is. We are all born with totally different strengths and weaknesses, and that's what makes us unique, and should be celebrated. Not denied.
- vidarh 13y ago
  > I'm never going to meet anyone who has had malaria You likely have done so, many times. For many countries malaria is so endemic that most people have had it once or more (malaria is not very lethal if you have access to the right medicines; the problem is a lot of people don't). Except for people living in places with extremely low immigration levels, it is unlikely that you'll go very long before coming across someone who have had malaria. > , or even anyone who knows someone who has had maleria. Yeah, right.

jbrooksuk 13y ago

Sure, they won't get Internet Access, but they'll definitely have a happier life not being ill. I know I'd rather be healthier than have internet.

mtgx 13y ago
So if the government knocks down on your door tomorrow and says: "Look, you have two choices, we can help you not get cancer, and we'll supply you with daily pills for the rest of your life, but you will not be allowed to have Internet access ever again, or you can choose Internet access, and we won't give you the cancer-fighting pills anymore". You're 30 years old. Go. Which do you choose?
- jbrooksuk 13y ago
  The pills.
  - bolder88 13y ago
    That's an insane choice. Do you really value raw lifespan over quality of life?
    - asadlionpk 13y ago
      so you would risk having cancer for internet access? Does internet define your quality of life?
      - bolder88 13y ago
        Of course it does. I use the internet to generate money.
        jbrooksuk 13y ago
        So do I, but if the pills make me healthy enough to go and do work elsewhere, then so be it.