4 ms·

As the father of a five-year-old, two things puzzled me here: 1) "In the United States, students begin Grade 1 at the age of 5 or 6." Say what? In our part o

by colomon 13y ago

As the father of a five-year-old, two things puzzled me here: 1) "In the United States, students begin Grade 1 at the age of 5 or 6." Say what? In our part of Michigan, kids begin kindergarten at 5 or 6, leaning towards 6. 2) I see people here complaining about the math on the test, but what boggles me is the reading! Are beginning first graders really expected to be able to handle word problems? Maybe it's just been too long since I was there myself, but I thought we were just learning to read "See Spot run" at that point in school. For sure it seems like an insane amount of reading skill to ask of a five-year-old.

ktsmith 13y ago
> Are beginning first graders really expected to be able to handle word problems? My wife thought that the test might have been for second grade when she saw it (2nd grade teacher) but you are correct in thinking the language is not appropriate for beginning of first grade.
anaphor 13y ago
Good point, it does seem like a lot of reading. Personally I remember being able to read around that level in 1st grade, but I'm pretty sure I was a huge exception. I doubt most kids have reached a high enough level of reading ability to understand this crap. And I should point out that children to do not acquire the ability to read, it's a purely _learned skill_ so it's kind of like asking them to be extremely good at one thing in order to do something only tangentially related.
GICodeWarrior 13y ago
1) For the 2013-14 school year, NYS children need to be 5 by December. The exact date in December varies from city to city. So (for NYS at least) the kindergarten starting age is 4 or 5. 2) Yes, it is that intense. I am glad this is getting some publicity. It is especially rough for students with special needs who are often held to the same standards.
- ktsmith 13y ago
  > It is especially rough for students with special needs who are often held to the same standards. This is an issue with the law. A student that is behind for any reason be it disability, language barrier, etc, that is in a mainstream classroom must be provided with grade level instruction and materials. If they have an individualized education plan (IEP) they'll also typically get individualized instruction from supplemental sources and/or their teachers. If they are just behind it's really up to the teacher to present the student with materials that they can handle and to find ways to help the kids close the gap. The best teachers will do this all the time, decent teachers will do it some, and crappy teachers won't do it at all. You can probably imagine that schools will be comprised of all three types. As far as grading and evaluation goes the teachers don't have a choice but to hold all the kids to the grade level standards, again due to the legal issues.
mturmon 13y ago
You make some good points. People are put off by the jargon. The jargon in the test will have been introduced in class by the teacher. For example, "number sentence" is "equation". I support that one. It gets kids understanding the equal sign, probably the most important symbol of mathematics, and making the connection between story problems (in English sentences) and their mathematical interpretation (in equations). And the idea of a "related subtraction sentence" is good too. The related subtraction sentences for 4 + 3 = 7 are 7 - 3 = 4 and 7 - 4 = 3. That's one way to teach subtraction, as the inverse of addition. Understanding it this way helps to remember the subtraction tables. The problem is that the test itself is rubbish. (My third-grader has been through this curriculum, in CA, but not with this test.) The worst one is question 12, which asks for a subtraction sentence, but none of the choices are subtraction. D'oh!
- ktsmith 13y ago
  I'm curious, you say your child has been through this curriculum. Are you saying your child was in a school using the Pearson curriculum or that your child's school used a curriculum based on common core?
  - mturmon 13y ago
    Common core curriculum (in CA, not NY, but they seem to be similar), but not Pearson tests. Her tests and homework were reasonable. I do have a problem with the attention her district pays to testing, but not really with the curriculum per se. The testing does give teachers less latitude with what subjects they teach, and when they teach it. They have to cover certain concepts by the time the test is taken, which in her schools is March or April. This means they have to re-order the curriculum to cover the subjects to-be-tested in time for the test.
    - ktsmith 13y ago
      > Common core curriculum (in CA, not NY, but they seem to be similar), but not Pearson tests. Yeah, the whole point is that if both states are implementing common core they should be the same. If you look at the NY Common Core standard it's a word for word match with what is posted on achievethecore.org and commoncore.org. Where the differences lie is in the curriculums that each state, and even each school district within a state, choose to buy and then how the schools implement it. I'm seeing some schools being extremely strict and enforcing scripted curriculum on teachers such as that provided by Success for All and other schools allowing teachers leeway to teach how they feel is best for their class each year so long as it's consistent across the grade level (all teachers teaching the same concepts at the same times). > I do have a problem with the attention her district pays to testing, but not really with the curriculum per se. Has California, or specifically your school district, implemented performance based pay or bonuses? That's in a trial run here and there have already been complaints about increases in test focus at the schools in the trial. A big part of the performance evaluation is based on test scores. edit: I should note that there's the common core standards and then common core curriculums. The curriculums should be compliant with the standards but aren't the same thing. So NY and CA should both be adhering to the same standard while they are free to use different curriculum (and almost certainly do from district to district).

by colomon 13y ago

ktsmith 13y ago

> Are beginning first graders really expected to be able to handle word problems? My wife thought that the test might have been for second grade when she saw it (2nd grade teacher) but you are correct in thinking the language is not appropriate for beginning of first grade.

anaphor 13y ago

Good point, it does seem like a lot of reading. Personally I remember being able to read around that level in 1st grade, but I'm pretty sure I was a huge exception. I doubt most kids have reached a high enough level of reading ability to understand this crap. And I should point out that children to do not acquire the ability to read, it's a purely _learned skill_ so it's kind of like asking them to be extremely good at one thing in order to do something only tangentially related.

GICodeWarrior 13y ago

1) For the 2013-14 school year, NYS children need to be 5 by December. The exact date in December varies from city to city. So (for NYS at least) the kindergarten starting age is 4 or 5. 2) Yes, it is that intense. I am glad this is getting some publicity. It is especially rough for students with special needs who are often held to the same standards.

ktsmith 13y ago
> It is especially rough for students with special needs who are often held to the same standards. This is an issue with the law. A student that is behind for any reason be it disability, language barrier, etc, that is in a mainstream classroom must be provided with grade level instruction and materials. If they have an individualized education plan (IEP) they'll also typically get individualized instruction from supplemental sources and/or their teachers. If they are just behind it's really up to the teacher to present the student with materials that they can handle and to find ways to help the kids close the gap. The best teachers will do this all the time, decent teachers will do it some, and crappy teachers won't do it at all. You can probably imagine that schools will be comprised of all three types. As far as grading and evaluation goes the teachers don't have a choice but to hold all the kids to the grade level standards, again due to the legal issues.

mturmon 13y ago

You make some good points. People are put off by the jargon. The jargon in the test will have been introduced in class by the teacher. For example, "number sentence" is "equation". I support that one. It gets kids understanding the equal sign, probably the most important symbol of mathematics, and making the connection between story problems (in English sentences) and their mathematical interpretation (in equations). And the idea of a "related subtraction sentence" is good too. The related subtraction sentences for 4 + 3 = 7 are 7 - 3 = 4 and 7 - 4 = 3. That's one way to teach subtraction, as the inverse of addition. Understanding it this way helps to remember the subtraction tables. The problem is that the test itself is rubbish. (My third-grader has been through this curriculum, in CA, but not with this test.) The worst one is question 12, which asks for a subtraction sentence, but none of the choices are subtraction. D'oh!

ktsmith 13y ago
I'm curious, you say your child has been through this curriculum. Are you saying your child was in a school using the Pearson curriculum or that your child's school used a curriculum based on common core?
- mturmon 13y ago
  Common core curriculum (in CA, not NY, but they seem to be similar), but not Pearson tests. Her tests and homework were reasonable. I do have a problem with the attention her district pays to testing, but not really with the curriculum per se. The testing does give teachers less latitude with what subjects they teach, and when they teach it. They have to cover certain concepts by the time the test is taken, which in her schools is March or April. This means they have to re-order the curriculum to cover the subjects to-be-tested in time for the test.
  - ktsmith 13y ago
    > Common core curriculum (in CA, not NY, but they seem to be similar), but not Pearson tests. Yeah, the whole point is that if both states are implementing common core they should be the same. If you look at the NY Common Core standard it's a word for word match with what is posted on achievethecore.org and commoncore.org. Where the differences lie is in the curriculums that each state, and even each school district within a state, choose to buy and then how the schools implement it. I'm seeing some schools being extremely strict and enforcing scripted curriculum on teachers such as that provided by Success for All and other schools allowing teachers leeway to teach how they feel is best for their class each year so long as it's consistent across the grade level (all teachers teaching the same concepts at the same times). > I do have a problem with the attention her district pays to testing, but not really with the curriculum per se. Has California, or specifically your school district, implemented performance based pay or bonuses? That's in a trial run here and there have already been complaints about increases in test focus at the schools in the trial. A big part of the performance evaluation is based on test scores. edit: I should note that there's the common core standards and then common core curriculums. The curriculums should be compliant with the standards but aren't the same thing. So NY and CA should both be adhering to the same standard while they are free to use different curriculum (and almost certainly do from district to district).