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Moving past the heated conjecture, the more accurate statement from a freenode staffer: njan: Xenos, for what it delivered, mibbit i) disrupted a large nu
by ankhmoop 17y ago
Moving past the heated conjecture, the more accurate statement from a freenode staffer:
njan: Xenos, for what it delivered, mibbit i)
disrupted a large number of our network users, and ii)
used a disproportionate amount of staff time.
njan: Xenos, we chose a solution that fixed those two
problems - using staff time and disrupting our 50k users
- whilst giving the mibbit users an alternative.
- swombat 17y agoMy nose hurts from time to time. Maybe I should cut it off.
- ankhmoop 17y agoFreenode doesn't need -- or have any responsibility to support -- Mibbit. Moreover, we've banned mibbit entirely from our channels without receiving any complaints or noticing any significant drop in channel traffic.
- swombat 17y agowithout receiving any complaints That's a ridiculous statement. I was in the #freenode channel for a few hours, I saw many people (other than the people coming from #startups) who were logging in to ask why Mibbit wasn't working.
- froo 17y agowithout receiving any complaints This is what you would call spin.... I too saw the same complaints.
- ankhmoop 17y agoOur channels, not #freenode.
- swombat 17y ago"Your honour, I thought he might object to being shot, but after I did it, he never ever raised the question! If that's not silent agreement, I don't know what is!"
- ankhmoop 17y agoIf a project developer, active user, or someone else with genuine stake in the project community complained, we'd pay attention ... but nobody has, despite the numerous venues available to them to do so. Your honour. It's not our responsibility to account for, be accountable to, or be concerned for outliers.
- simonw 17y agoI'm a project developer (Django + other things), IRC has been blocked at my last two places of work and I've often used mibbit, which I found to be an excellent client - better than many desktop clients in fact. Please consider this a complaint.
- ankhmoop 17y agoThen if the Django IRC channel has banned Mibbit, I suggest you speak with them -- assuming Freenode decides that expending volunteer services to support a commercial service is a worthwhile venture. Otherwise, there's the freenode web IRC interface.
- abstractbill 17y agoYou just said you would pay attention if someone "with a genuine stake in the project community complained". And then someone did, and you brushed him off.
- ankhmoop 17y ago"Our channels". As I've said before, we've been forced to regularly ban Mibbit on our channels (as in, software projects with which I am involved). I simply don't represent freenode, or django, or web developers in general. [edit] I see Mibbit fans are downvoting any negative comments en masse, not to mention the vitriolic dialog with freenode staffers on IRC. Yeesh.
- vollmond 17y agoNot too mention, a large proportion of those who would complain now have no means to do so.
- ankhmoop 17y agoOther than the vast quantity of available desktop clients, as well as the now-available freenode web IRC chat?
- swombat 17y agoMay people who use Mibbit do so because they are sitting behind firewalls that do not allow IRC. The Freenode client is freenode-specific, and only works with freenode. It also lacks a lot of Mibbit's features, from the sound of it.
- ankhmoop 17y agoQuite a few of my development peers sit behind such firewalls and yet can and do still connect using their desktop clients. It's not something we discuss, so I don't know what method they're using, but as a member of the community in question it's fairly readily assumed that you'd know how to handle such a situation. We're under absolutely no responsibility to provide "IRC accessibility" to all comers.
- pyre 17y agoTo rephrase things another way, would you ban mIRC if you determined that 100% of disruptive users used it as their client? Even though there are plenty of legitimate users of mIRC? It seems more likely to me that there is some sort of objection to 'web clients' because desktop clients are the 'one true way' to access IRC. Note that I say this as someone that prefers to IRC from console clients like BitchX and irssi through a screen session. I known plenty of people that have used IRC that don't 'know' what IRC really is other than how to use the graphical elements of their client to access things for the 'chat room'. And in this case you are not 'providing' IRC accessibility. Mibbit is providing that. The only thing that you're doing is restricting accessibility by banning Mibbit. Now if Mibbit were banned by default on your IRCd and you had to 'grant access' to them you could argue the other case.