6 ms·

It's a little ironic to see this guy complaining about people insulting him. In porting Google Chrome to Linux we encountered a bug running under kwin, and my c

by evmar 13y ago

It's a little ironic to see this guy complaining about people insulting him. In porting Google Chrome to Linux we encountered a bug running under kwin, and my colleagues tracked the issue down to a bug in kwin and even wrote a patch that fixed the bug only to be met by rudeness from him. https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=15698#c37 https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=15698#c3... (To be clear, it's fine with me if someone disagrees with some other software's UI decisions, but it's another thing to call those other people "stupid" when those decisions are to make use of an API you explicitly implemented, or call their code "broken" when the bug is demonstrably yours. Quoted words are his.)

lucisferre 13y ago
What are we supposed to be looking at. I've searched that entire thread for the word "stupid" and I can't find it. I also don't see the rudeness.
- ikt 13y ago
  "Is there any valid reason to change the code except Chromium? In general I am against changing our code to fix broken applications and Chromium is broken. They should just use the system titlebars and not do their own stupid things." From: https://svn.reviewboard.kde.org/r/4396/ https://svn.reviewboard.kde.org/r/4396/
  - nknighthb 13y ago
    That is an attack on code, not people. It has no resemblance to Shuttleworth's remarks.
    - pygy_ 13y ago
      > "They should just use the system titlebars and not do their own stupid things." This is a personal insult.
      - nknighthb 13y ago
        I know people are prone to take such remarks personally, but it's directed at the action, not the person. "You did something stupid" is not "You are stupid".
      - belorn 13y ago
        The word "They" refers to Chromium. Saying that a program and its behavior is stupid, is not a personal insult. For example, I think my gnome3 fallback menu bar is stupid for crashing when loading its icons for a particular sub menu (running unstable). I do not however think that gnome3 developers are stupid.
        pygy_ 13y ago
        He's criticizing a design decision, an inetention, not a bug.
        Jasper_ 13y ago
        Have you reported the bug upstream? I'm a GNOME developer and I haven't heard of this crash.
        belorn 13y ago
        No I have not. On Debian Unstable, I always give the bugs a few months to sort themselves out. Could be a problem in the packages recent dependencies, graphic driver regression, or who knows. I also want to do some preliminary debugging of the issue before sending in a bug report.
      - chris_wot 13y ago
        It's inflammatory, sure. But it's not a personal insult, the "they" is collective.
        pygy_ 13y ago
        (map stupid-behavior! chrome-developers)
  - Shorel 13y ago
    Honestly, Chrom* is broken everywhere. Particularly in XP. I have mine black and the bastard Chrom* chooses to be blue. In general Google apps play very bad with desktop standards. Logical, regarding their position about the desktop. I just have to use Chrom* because Opera committed suicide.
    - sliverstorm 13y ago
      I have mine black and the bastard Chrom chooses to be blue.* The horror.
    - mindrag 13y ago
      XP? Really? It's time to let go of a 12-year-old OS.
      - Shorel 13y ago
        I triple boot XP, Windows Seven and Ubuntu Saucy. Some things (some games I like, ripping disks) are better done in XP.
    - claudius 13y ago
      > I just have to use Chrom* because Opera committed suicide. 12.16 still works nicely (apart from Google+, which takes up unreasonable amounts of CPU time, but unfortunately there are some people there worth reading).
  - jiggy2011 13y ago
    Honestly, I agree.
  - jeltz 13y ago
    Sounds like an argument about the code which could have done without the word "stupid", but it is not rude at all. And it does not attack any person.
- __chrismc 13y ago
  Click through to the linked thread - https://svn.reviewboard.kde.org/r/4396/ https://svn.reviewboard.kde.org/r/4396/
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- lysium 13y ago
  I guess she meant this thread https://svn.reviewboard.kde.org/r/4396/ https://svn.reviewboard.kde.org/r/4396/ Don't know if that counts as rude or not.
general_failure 13y ago
It's true for KDE in general. When KDE4 was being made, many many users implored them not to break things for the heck of it. But they went ahead and did it anyway. This ended in them calling their users are stupid and having no clue. TBH, most people have moved away from KDE. There are very few people using KDE. Everyone I know uses Ubuntu/Unity. They may not like Unity but KDE4/Plasma is worse.
- ewzimm 13y ago
  KDE 4.0 was released almost 6 years ago, and I wish people would get over it. 4.11 is not the same software. It's very fast and stable, and if you develop for it, you can count on long-term compatibility. It's GNOME and Unity that break backward compatibility with new releases now. They certainly have the right to do that, and I respect their desire to move their desktop forward, but it means software like qtcurve no longer works for GTK because some developers don't want to have to rewrite for every GNOME release.
  - makomk 13y ago
    Well, it was very fast and stable. For the last few KDE major releases plasma-desktop has been segfaulting on a regular basis for me. I looked up the backtrace a few versions back and found a bugreport where a lot of people were experiencing the same issue; the developers confirmed it and reckoned that it was probably a bug in some new Qt functionality they'd moved to that they couldn't do much about.
    - ewzimm 13y ago
      Could you post a link to the bug report? I'd like to look at it.
      - makomk 13y ago
        I'm fairly this was the bug report: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=311871 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=311871 Apparently someone finally checked in a workaround a couple of days ago.
bkor 13y ago
Being really clear that some suggestion is not right at all is totally different than getting personal. He's German and really direct regarding technical suggestions. Doesn't make him personal or rude.
- caf 13y ago
  "these things you do are stupid" is not personal or rude?
  - chris_wot 13y ago
    You misquoted him. He didn't say that. He said: "Is there any valid reason to change the code except Chromium? In general I am against changing our code to fix broken applications and Chromium is broken. They should just use the system titlebars and not do their own stupid things."
    - caf 13y ago
      Recommending that they should not do their own stupid things describes the things that they are doing as stupid. I am not interesting in debating how many angels can dance on the head of this particular pin any further, I don't even have a dog in this bloody fight.

by evmar 13y ago

lucisferre 13y ago

What are we supposed to be looking at. I've searched that entire thread for the word "stupid" and I can't find it. I also don't see the rudeness.

ikt 13y ago
"Is there any valid reason to change the code except Chromium? In general I am against changing our code to fix broken applications and Chromium is broken. They should just use the system titlebars and not do their own stupid things." From: https://svn.reviewboard.kde.org/r/4396/ https://svn.reviewboard.kde.org/r/4396/
- nknighthb 13y ago
  That is an attack on code, not people. It has no resemblance to Shuttleworth's remarks.
  - pygy_ 13y ago
    > "They should just use the system titlebars and not do their own stupid things." This is a personal insult.
    - nknighthb 13y ago
      I know people are prone to take such remarks personally, but it's directed at the action, not the person. "You did something stupid" is not "You are stupid".
    - belorn 13y ago
      The word "They" refers to Chromium. Saying that a program and its behavior is stupid, is not a personal insult. For example, I think my gnome3 fallback menu bar is stupid for crashing when loading its icons for a particular sub menu (running unstable). I do not however think that gnome3 developers are stupid.
      - pygy_ 13y ago
        He's criticizing a design decision, an inetention, not a bug.
      - Jasper_ 13y ago
        Have you reported the bug upstream? I'm a GNOME developer and I haven't heard of this crash.
        belorn 13y ago
        No I have not. On Debian Unstable, I always give the bugs a few months to sort themselves out. Could be a problem in the packages recent dependencies, graphic driver regression, or who knows. I also want to do some preliminary debugging of the issue before sending in a bug report.
    - chris_wot 13y ago
      It's inflammatory, sure. But it's not a personal insult, the "they" is collective.
      - pygy_ 13y ago
        (map stupid-behavior! chrome-developers)
- Shorel 13y ago
  Honestly, Chrom* is broken everywhere. Particularly in XP. I have mine black and the bastard Chrom* chooses to be blue. In general Google apps play very bad with desktop standards. Logical, regarding their position about the desktop. I just have to use Chrom* because Opera committed suicide.
  - sliverstorm 13y ago
    I have mine black and the bastard Chrom chooses to be blue.* The horror.
  - mindrag 13y ago
    XP? Really? It's time to let go of a 12-year-old OS.
    - Shorel 13y ago
      I triple boot XP, Windows Seven and Ubuntu Saucy. Some things (some games I like, ripping disks) are better done in XP.
  - claudius 13y ago
    > I just have to use Chrom* because Opera committed suicide. 12.16 still works nicely (apart from Google+, which takes up unreasonable amounts of CPU time, but unfortunately there are some people there worth reading).
- jiggy2011 13y ago
  Honestly, I agree.
- jeltz 13y ago
  Sounds like an argument about the code which could have done without the word "stupid", but it is not rude at all. And it does not attack any person.
__chrismc 13y ago
Click through to the linked thread - https://svn.reviewboard.kde.org/r/4396/ https://svn.reviewboard.kde.org/r/4396/
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
lysium 13y ago
I guess she meant this thread https://svn.reviewboard.kde.org/r/4396/ https://svn.reviewboard.kde.org/r/4396/ Don't know if that counts as rude or not.

general_failure 13y ago

It's true for KDE in general. When KDE4 was being made, many many users implored them not to break things for the heck of it. But they went ahead and did it anyway. This ended in them calling their users are stupid and having no clue. TBH, most people have moved away from KDE. There are very few people using KDE. Everyone I know uses Ubuntu/Unity. They may not like Unity but KDE4/Plasma is worse.

ewzimm 13y ago
KDE 4.0 was released almost 6 years ago, and I wish people would get over it. 4.11 is not the same software. It's very fast and stable, and if you develop for it, you can count on long-term compatibility. It's GNOME and Unity that break backward compatibility with new releases now. They certainly have the right to do that, and I respect their desire to move their desktop forward, but it means software like qtcurve no longer works for GTK because some developers don't want to have to rewrite for every GNOME release.
- makomk 13y ago
  Well, it was very fast and stable. For the last few KDE major releases plasma-desktop has been segfaulting on a regular basis for me. I looked up the backtrace a few versions back and found a bugreport where a lot of people were experiencing the same issue; the developers confirmed it and reckoned that it was probably a bug in some new Qt functionality they'd moved to that they couldn't do much about.
  - ewzimm 13y ago
    Could you post a link to the bug report? I'd like to look at it.
    - makomk 13y ago
      I'm fairly this was the bug report: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=311871 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=311871 Apparently someone finally checked in a workaround a couple of days ago.

bkor 13y ago

Being really clear that some suggestion is not right at all is totally different than getting personal. He's German and really direct regarding technical suggestions. Doesn't make him personal or rude.

caf 13y ago
"these things you do are stupid" is not personal or rude?
- chris_wot 13y ago
  You misquoted him. He didn't say that. He said: "Is there any valid reason to change the code except Chromium? In general I am against changing our code to fix broken applications and Chromium is broken. They should just use the system titlebars and not do their own stupid things."
  - caf 13y ago
    Recommending that they should not do their own stupid things describes the things that they are doing as stupid. I am not interesting in debating how many angels can dance on the head of this particular pin any further, I don't even have a dog in this bloody fight.