I hear you. I think I'm discussing the celebrity culture around these frameworks more than the frameworks themselves. I don't have a problem with them technica

I hear you. I think I'm discussing the celebrity culture around these frameworks more than the frameworks themselves. I don't have a problem with them technically, they're a bit beyond what I could make. But I don't want to see classical notions of program design phased out in favor of "just use X." The ideas of what makes software malleable, pleasant to maintain, and grow are quite old.