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Allow me to inject some perspective. 1) For all the talk of Microsoft and Apple "abusing patents", it was actually Google that had to pay 14 million in damages
by throwawaykf 13y ago
Allow me to inject some perspective.
1) For all the talk of Microsoft and Apple "abusing patents", it was actually Google that had to pay 14 million in damages for actually doing just that. Let's just not forget that before deciding who should be "alienating the tech community". However, Google's PR really is very good, and unfortunately, most people here accept it without critical thought because it confirms their biases.
2) This is business, and business is war. Giving away Android for free was a direct attack on Microsoft's and Apple's business model. They are simply responding in kind. Most people here root for Google simply because they give away tons of really cool stuff for free, and/or because they seem to be "more aligned" with free/open source, which appears to be the dominant religion 'round these parts. However, people elsewhere would see this as perfectly natural.
3) Google is very weak on the patent front, and they know it. So while they hustle to buy up patents from all sorts of sources, they simultaneously try to spin the patent system as "broken" and their own moves as "defensive" in an attempt to reduce their disadvantage in the long term. It may seem counter-intuitive: why simultaneously buy patents and work to weaken their value? Because buying patents is just a short term defensive move. In the long term, Google would be perfectly happy to not have a patent system at all because all their competitive advantage is locked away in their data centers. This is a luxury Apple and Microsoft do not have. They put out products that anyone anywhere can copy, so they would prefer having a patent system.
4) As mentioned below, Google had an option of joining the consortium, but decided to go it alone. Drummond's blog post says it would not have helped Android, but that is very shallow reasoning. They could have always joined in and negotiated the rights to indemnify Android vendors in exchange for contributing a lot more towards the winning bid. Maybe the consortium would not have agreed to it -- we'll never know, because Google peremptorily declined to join in. But I have no idea why they though they could outbid a consortium of multiple giants in the space.
5) As mentioned in TFA, there is some truth to the argument that Rockstar is actually independent of Microsoft and Apple. I know of patent trolls that have funding from e.g. hedge funds, but operate entirely independently. Heck, IV is a perfectly good example. They have funding from Google themselves, and yet they turned around and sued Motorola!
Now, allow me to address your theory: You posit that this may invoke the ire of the "tech community" and this would be a disadvantage to Apple and Microsoft. Some questionable assumptions:
1) The tech community in general has a similar world view as the HN (or is it SV?) bubble. Trust me on this, HN is an enormous echo chamber. If you ask software engineers outside this bubble -- which is, you know, most of the world -- about patents, you'll get three responses:
a) "What's a patent?" (No, really.)
b) "I don't mind patents."
c) "Having a patent as an achievement!"
2) The tech community, even if it does by some remote chance share your world view, won't care. This is business as usual, and has historically always been so.
Now you may move the goal posts and say that by "tech community" you mean "the good ones", the "hackers". Again, I'm not so sure. Consider the NSA revelations: All the comments on HN are rife with outrage. Yet would you believe, even for a minute, that the NSA does not have the best of the best?
Edit: I really do not wish to come across as supporting one company over another, and hope to maintain a neutral tone. I think all the companies involved are perfectly good companies to work for, and perfectly justified in what they're doing. I'm just trying to present a perspective that is somewhat lacking in most comments so far.
- kbenson 13y agoI don't know how you can expect to keep a neutral tone when equating this to war. That is striking an incendiary tone from the beginning. Releasing Android was not an "attack". It was entering a market with a competitive product. The fact that Google was able to leverage new methods and resources (open source and the continued evolving of the Linux kernel) to reduce the cost of their offering (to the point of changing where revenue is generated in the product) is a normal market behavior. Pooling monopolistic grants and abusing the legal system to thwart market behavior is not something I think we should condone, regardless of how much the other companies felt under attack.
- throwawaykf 13y agoThe comparison to war was simply a rhetoric device to imply that all is fair in love and war. > Releasing Android was not an "attack". It was entering a market with a competitive product. The fact that Google was able to leverage new methods and resources (open source and the continued evolving of the Linux kernel) to reduce the cost of their offering (to the point of changing where revenue is generated in the product) is a normal market behavior. That's one perspective. See my response to the sibling comment (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6657912 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6657912) to see another perspective. Google was not the first to think of using Linux for a mobile OS (See: Maemo). But think of where the real competitive advantage for Android came from: Now can you now think why Apple is unhappy? >* Pooling monopolistic grants and abusing the legal system to thwart market behavior is not something I think we should condone, regardless of how much the other companies felt under attack.* "Monopolistic grants" is just a biased way to look at the patent system that most of the other tech industry works with just fine. "Abusing the legal system"? Again, let's just keep in mind it was not Apple or Microsoft, but Google which was found by a federal jury to be doing so, and charged millions of dollars for that. Google did whatever they thought they could get away with legally to get an advantage. These companies are simply doing the same.
- kbenson 13y agoI happened to see your other comment when it was just a few minutes old. I almost replied to it directly, but it would only have been to say "huh?" I found it hard to distinguish when you were purposefully being extreme and when you were making actual assertions of your own views (if any). A fine exhibit of Poe's law, I guess, as even though you indicate sarcasm, I'm not sure where it starts... I wasn't terming them "monopolistic grants" to vilify them (those words are used in the law itself), merely to more clearly express the specific aspects they are pooling that I object to. Specifically, with in more detail, it's the pooling of the patents into a third party to make use of the patents while protecting the parent companies from much of the downsides of using their patents against believed infringers. I term that abusing the legal system. It may not be illegal yet, but that doesn't stop me from deeming it a morally repugnant perversion of how the patent system is supposed to operate. Google may indeed be guilty of patent infringement based on their actions, but from where I'm standing, it's nowhere near clear. I would prefer less legal maneuvering and more clear cases regarding patents and suspected patent infringement, but unfortunately it's not in patent holder's interests to test whether patents are actually valid, as they are much more useful as a tool to intimidate.