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Show HN: Free video game trading, a year after I launched it

39 points by mathgeek 13y ago

mathgeek 13y ago
This was the first "successful" site that I launched. Took me about a month to develop originally, and launched it last year on Black Friday. Subsequently sold the business to a competitor and still operate it for them as a side job. Have put quite a bit of time into it over the past year and just had a relaunch with a new backend system. Basically direct user-to-user trading via the postal service. You sell your games for virtual currency that you use to buy games from other folks. We used to charge for it, but now it's free with a limited ability to get cash for your currency if you can't find anything to buy. Running on Heroku, RoR, Bootstrap (as if it isn't obvious), with plenty of other open source tech behind it. Any questions, feel free to ask.
- pervycreeper 13y ago
  >Any questions, feel free to ask How do you make money?
  - mathgeek 13y ago
    Under the "old" system, there was a $1-$2 fee per trade. Back then, we were doing automatching. You listed what you had, and what you wanted, and the system would match up buyers with sellers (which is what you paid the dollar for). Now, the currency (credits) can be purchased at a rate of $1 per 100 credits. You don't have to buy any, as you can get them in return for the games you want to get rid of, but it's an option if you see something you want to grab right now at a good price. There's also a limited currency buyback program that anyone can use once a month if they don't see any games they want, but want to get case back. That's under maintenance right now, but will be launching again next week.
    - jere 13y ago
      Your answer is a little unclear. If you're essentially printing money (i.e. "credits") and then guaranteeing to buy them back at the same rate, it seems like you would net nothing. Unless you're counting on credits never getting cashed back in or making interest on the deposits. From your FAQ, it seems like the profit comes in the form of a $1 buyback transaction fee. Am I mistaken?
      - mathgeek 13y ago
        Sorry, hope this clarifies. Not every credit that's sold ends up getting cashed out (it's a limited program as far as how many sales worth of currency you can get in cash). That $1 difference helps, but in the end the currency sold is still the main revenue. The buyback is merely a way of ensuring that if you sell games but can't find anything to get back for them, you can get cash. That's limited to 5 games/month.
        MichaelGG 13y ago
        So the model is hoping people end up with leftover credits? Isn't this similar to a stored-value model, with state laws mandating that any leftover credit has to be returned? I must have misunderstood.
        mathgeek 13y ago
        No, it's simply a model where you continue trading those credits for games. Naturally there is some risk involved, but you can simply buy games to spend down your balance.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
- hkarthik 13y ago
  This is awesome and I plan to use it in the future. I'm curious how you deal with possible fraud or how you insulate yourself? From an infrastructure perspective, how long did it take you to break even on your costs with Heroku? What kind of configuration did you start with to keep the site's availability under control? Feel free to provide as much or as little detail as you would like. Thanks!
  - mathgeek 13y ago
    Fraud really hasn't been an issue, at least as far as we've been alerted to it. We hold the credits until the buyer confirms receipt and that the game works, so anyone sending out fake games would need to make them pretty convincing. There's only been one person that I'm aware of doing that, and that was discovered pretty quickly thanks to the buyers alerting me of the situation. Heroku's been one of the main reasons I was able to launch the site and iterate new features so quickly. 99% of the time the site runs on a single web dyno using unicorn to serve more than one request at a time, plus one worker for sending emails, popping up site notifications (using Gritter for that), etc. It's been that way since launch.
    - CodeMage 13y ago
      Fraud really hasn't been an issue, at least as far as we've been alerted to it. We hold the credits until the buyer confirms receipt and that the game works, so anyone sending out fake games would need to make them pretty convincing. So what happens if Alice sends Bob a legit game, but Bob claims it's a fake? Didn't Bob just get a game for free?
      - mathgeek 13y ago
        In that case Bob is required to send the game to us for verification. Nothing change hands until that is resolved. Bob gets credits to cover the shipping costs to send the game to us, if it's a legitimate claim.
        jamais 13y ago
makerops 13y ago
I am not a video game player, but this seems like such an obvious site (and awesome), are there a lot of competitors? I see ads for video game stores, and how they screw you on trade-ins, which this seems to fix.
- mathgeek 13y ago
  There are two or three major competitors that I'm aware of (other than the GameStops and Amazons of the world), and a handful of smaller ones. We're currently, by my estimates, the third largest. The folks who I now run the site for own the largest (as far as I'm aware), but we're mostly independent since I still operate it day-to-day. One of the major points of the site is that you get 100% of the value you sell the game for. If it's going for $40 used, and you sell it for 4000 credits (the site's currency, valued at $1/100), you get 4000 credits to spend on something else.
  - jonlucc 13y ago
    First, let me say I love the idea and the site. My question: Why bother with the credits? Is it a legal workaround for currency? Why not make credits equivalent to dollars?
    - mathgeek 13y ago
      There were already a lot of sites doing the "keep your cash in our system" model. I was also sure there were some legal issues with a cash system, but in the end it was mostly about differentiating.
      - jonlucc 13y ago
        I only ask because it seems like the only barrier to entry. I know the math is easy, but it still is math for the user. Are you comfortable sharing numbers about how many users are repeats? It seems like a very sticky system.
        13y ago
jimhart3000 13y ago
Been a VGFive user since launch, and while there was a big spate of Application Error downtime in the early days, the fact that it's still up right now speaks volumes for your infrastructure improvements!
shijie 13y ago
I love the concept. However, I don't necessarily love the layout or the flow of the whole interface. The overarching goal of the whole app is trading games. However, I'm multiple clicks into the app before I can get to a search bar. The "list of available games" on the front page looks impressive, but it does little good for a user looking for a specific game, which, I would wager, is > 80% of your use case. I'd love to see a search bar on the home page, maybe even a "google instant" style mechanism that shows me whether or not you have what I'm looking for at the moment, and allows me to rapidly re-query for other titles. I'd wager it might even moderately boost your conversion. Anyway, love the concept and how it all works. Keep up the good work.
- mathgeek 13y ago
  Thanks for the comments. The search bar is definitely something I'm looking in to. Something along the lines of a recommendations dropdown as you search, with a "X copies available" note, sounds like an awesome idea. Much appreciated!
hfsktr 13y ago
I know it's nitpicking but the footer keeps getting pushed away. I didn't even see the top nav but found the search from there. I know what I'm doing after work now.
sharemywin 13y ago
Do you get a lot of users refering others?
kerpal 13y ago
This is exactly like 99 Gamers, which is also free. It was started about a year ago too, according to the original launch post on reddit. I recently started using it to get rid of Xbox games collecting dust. The experience has been painless and is an excellent way to try out other games. Interesting to see there are other video game trading websites out there.

39 points by mathgeek 13y ago

This was the first "successful" site that I launched. Took me about a month to develop originally, and launched it last year on Black Friday. Subsequently sold the business to a competitor and still operate it for them as a side job. Have put quite a bit of time into it over the past year and just had a relaunch with a new backend system. Basically direct user-to-user trading via the postal service. You sell your games for virtual currency that you use to buy games from other folks. We used to charge for it, but now it's free with a limited ability to get cash for your currency if you can't find anything to buy. Running on Heroku, RoR, Bootstrap (as if it isn't obvious), with plenty of other open source tech behind it. Any questions, feel free to ask.

pervycreeper 13y ago
>Any questions, feel free to ask How do you make money?
- mathgeek 13y ago
  Under the "old" system, there was a $1-$2 fee per trade. Back then, we were doing automatching. You listed what you had, and what you wanted, and the system would match up buyers with sellers (which is what you paid the dollar for). Now, the currency (credits) can be purchased at a rate of $1 per 100 credits. You don't have to buy any, as you can get them in return for the games you want to get rid of, but it's an option if you see something you want to grab right now at a good price. There's also a limited currency buyback program that anyone can use once a month if they don't see any games they want, but want to get case back. That's under maintenance right now, but will be launching again next week.
  - jere 13y ago
    Your answer is a little unclear. If you're essentially printing money (i.e. "credits") and then guaranteeing to buy them back at the same rate, it seems like you would net nothing. Unless you're counting on credits never getting cashed back in or making interest on the deposits. From your FAQ, it seems like the profit comes in the form of a $1 buyback transaction fee. Am I mistaken?
    - mathgeek 13y ago
      Sorry, hope this clarifies. Not every credit that's sold ends up getting cashed out (it's a limited program as far as how many sales worth of currency you can get in cash). That $1 difference helps, but in the end the currency sold is still the main revenue. The buyback is merely a way of ensuring that if you sell games but can't find anything to get back for them, you can get cash. That's limited to 5 games/month.
      - MichaelGG 13y ago
        So the model is hoping people end up with leftover credits? Isn't this similar to a stored-value model, with state laws mandating that any leftover credit has to be returned? I must have misunderstood.
        mathgeek 13y ago
        No, it's simply a model where you continue trading those credits for games. Naturally there is some risk involved, but you can simply buy games to spend down your balance.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
hkarthik 13y ago
This is awesome and I plan to use it in the future. I'm curious how you deal with possible fraud or how you insulate yourself? From an infrastructure perspective, how long did it take you to break even on your costs with Heroku? What kind of configuration did you start with to keep the site's availability under control? Feel free to provide as much or as little detail as you would like. Thanks!
- mathgeek 13y ago
  Fraud really hasn't been an issue, at least as far as we've been alerted to it. We hold the credits until the buyer confirms receipt and that the game works, so anyone sending out fake games would need to make them pretty convincing. There's only been one person that I'm aware of doing that, and that was discovered pretty quickly thanks to the buyers alerting me of the situation. Heroku's been one of the main reasons I was able to launch the site and iterate new features so quickly. 99% of the time the site runs on a single web dyno using unicorn to serve more than one request at a time, plus one worker for sending emails, popping up site notifications (using Gritter for that), etc. It's been that way since launch.
  - CodeMage 13y ago
    Fraud really hasn't been an issue, at least as far as we've been alerted to it. We hold the credits until the buyer confirms receipt and that the game works, so anyone sending out fake games would need to make them pretty convincing. So what happens if Alice sends Bob a legit game, but Bob claims it's a fake? Didn't Bob just get a game for free?
    - mathgeek 13y ago
      In that case Bob is required to send the game to us for verification. Nothing change hands until that is resolved. Bob gets credits to cover the shipping costs to send the game to us, if it's a legitimate claim.
      - jamais 13y ago

makerops 13y ago

I am not a video game player, but this seems like such an obvious site (and awesome), are there a lot of competitors? I see ads for video game stores, and how they screw you on trade-ins, which this seems to fix.

mathgeek 13y ago
There are two or three major competitors that I'm aware of (other than the GameStops and Amazons of the world), and a handful of smaller ones. We're currently, by my estimates, the third largest. The folks who I now run the site for own the largest (as far as I'm aware), but we're mostly independent since I still operate it day-to-day. One of the major points of the site is that you get 100% of the value you sell the game for. If it's going for $40 used, and you sell it for 4000 credits (the site's currency, valued at $1/100), you get 4000 credits to spend on something else.
- jonlucc 13y ago
  First, let me say I love the idea and the site. My question: Why bother with the credits? Is it a legal workaround for currency? Why not make credits equivalent to dollars?
  - mathgeek 13y ago
    There were already a lot of sites doing the "keep your cash in our system" model. I was also sure there were some legal issues with a cash system, but in the end it was mostly about differentiating.
    - jonlucc 13y ago
      I only ask because it seems like the only barrier to entry. I know the math is easy, but it still is math for the user. Are you comfortable sharing numbers about how many users are repeats? It seems like a very sticky system.
      - 13y ago

jimhart3000 13y ago

Been a VGFive user since launch, and while there was a big spate of Application Error downtime in the early days, the fact that it's still up right now speaks volumes for your infrastructure improvements!

shijie 13y ago

I love the concept. However, I don't necessarily love the layout or the flow of the whole interface. The overarching goal of the whole app is trading games. However, I'm multiple clicks into the app before I can get to a search bar. The "list of available games" on the front page looks impressive, but it does little good for a user looking for a specific game, which, I would wager, is > 80% of your use case. I'd love to see a search bar on the home page, maybe even a "google instant" style mechanism that shows me whether or not you have what I'm looking for at the moment, and allows me to rapidly re-query for other titles. I'd wager it might even moderately boost your conversion. Anyway, love the concept and how it all works. Keep up the good work.

mathgeek 13y ago
Thanks for the comments. The search bar is definitely something I'm looking in to. Something along the lines of a recommendations dropdown as you search, with a "X copies available" note, sounds like an awesome idea. Much appreciated!

hfsktr 13y ago

I know it's nitpicking but the footer keeps getting pushed away. I didn't even see the top nav but found the search from there. I know what I'm doing after work now.

sharemywin 13y ago

Do you get a lot of users refering others?

kerpal 13y ago

This is exactly like 99 Gamers, which is also free. It was started about a year ago too, according to the original launch post on reddit. I recently started using it to get rid of Xbox games collecting dust. The experience has been painless and is an excellent way to try out other games. Interesting to see there are other video game trading websites out there.