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I'd be a lot more interested in this if Google didn't just shutter everyone's trust in the Nexus program by obsoleting the Galaxy Nexus, a phone less than two y

I'd be a lot more interested in this if Google didn't just shutter everyone's trust in the Nexus program by obsoleting the Galaxy Nexus, a phone less than two years old. It only got one major OS upgrade since launch, which is less than most regular Samsung phones (which typically receive two). Basically, Google's flagship phone wtih 1GB RAM just got dumped on. By Google. As they launch Android 4.4 which "should run great on devices with just 512MB ram". That's just outright offensive. Buying whatever Nexus is out there when I needed a new phone has always been a no-brainer. Not so anymore.

sghill 13y ago
> Buying whatever Nexus is out there when I needed a new phone has always been a no-brainer. Not so anymore. Interesting, I would not have expected so much importance to be placed on unspecified rolling updates. My current phone is the only Nexus device I've ever had, but it was easily my best unlocked option at $250-300 US. I think that holds whether it's running 4.2 or the latest.
- josteink 13y ago
  > Interesting, I would not have expected so much importance to be placed on unspecified rolling updates. The Galaxy Nexus was sold on software and on software alone. It's hardware was if not underwhelming, certainly not best of breed available in the market when it was launched. And it was launched with a price to match high-end phones from other Android OEMs. If you bought this phone, you bought it because you wanted software updates. And when you consider today's smart-phone market, phones have enough RAM, CPU cores and god knows what. New hardware is not really that interesting. All the good, new and exciting stuff happens in software. From that point of view, Google just shit on the only thing which made the Galaxy Nexus worth buying in the first place. They just outright told the market: Not even a recent Nexus is guaranteed Android updates. That's a severe breach of trust.
  - throwaway1979 13y ago
    Nexus One and Nexus S buyer here. Had a terrible experience with both these devices. The way I see it, customer service isn't a priority on these devices. But the devices are pretty open so the community finds solutions. I'll give you a shocking example. There was a bug on one of the Nexus devices I owned where if you were in a deadzone for more than a few minutes, the radio would crash. I kid you not! The stupid radio would crash whenever my train went into the deadzone of the Grand Central approach. No fix, no official word. Then, some programmer released a free app where if your radio was out for more than 1-2 mins, it would automatically shutoff your radio. Got me going. This is why I would not suggest my wife or any non-tech person to get a nexus device. If you are a tech person, it is probably okay. I'm considering a Nexus 5 myself.
  - sghill 13y ago
    Fair enough, I'd be reacting similarly I'm sure. I get that two years is too short, but how long do you expect a device like this to be supported? I think I recall three major updates for my original iPhone, but by the last update it was almost unusably slow.
    - josteink 13y ago
      Google changed versioning schema when rolling out Jelly Bean. On Gingerbread, the various minor updates was versioned 2.3.3, 2.3.4, etc. On Jelly Bean, they were version 4.1, 4.2 and 4.3, but they were all still minor updates. When you look at it that way, the Galaxy Nexus received one major update and that was it. That's less than most "flagship" consumer devices sold, which typically receive at least two. As for what I expect from a Nexus, I demand a minimum of two, but find it reasonable to expect three. From this, it seems clear that Google has completely lost its commitment to the Nexus-brand, and to me that makes the Nexus-brand completely uninteresting.
      - cptskippy 13y ago
        As for what I expect from a Nexus What you expect and what is promised are not the same, in this case they are very different. I demand a minimum of two, but find it reasonable to expect three. So now it's an unrealistic demand you're making, and not their failure to keep a promise (they never actually made)? From this, it seems clear that Google has completely lost its commitment to the Nexus-brand Regardless of the circumstances, this is an absurd claim.
    - magnet_ball 13y ago
      It's not the amount as much as the lifetime. I live in that ancient belief that you should be able to keep your phone functioning happily for 3 years, which is exactly what happened with my iPhone 4, by iOS 6 it became slow and kind of crashy but usable and it did everything I wanted it to (even if it didn't get all the new features like the new navigation or Siri). But the main point is that it kept going for more than 3 years, and the Galaxy Nexus, a phone that was really expensive at the time does not get the new update just a year and a half after release. That's half of the lifetime I expect of a phone.
  - lhl 13y ago
    While I can sympathize, the Nexus line's promise has always been shifting... Vanilla Android and timely updates were what Google were pushing for the GNex, but these days it seems to mostly be serving as vague mid-range price pressure? The only real common thread for the phones seem to be that they were primarily Google dev devices. And while it might have been an implicit promise, sadly, I don't think long-term support (or any customer support, really) was ever much in the cards. FWIW my Google devices (from G1 on) have all eventually migrated to CyanogenMod, where they've run better than they ever did on stock. While CM isn't rushing to 4.4 (the plan is to land 10.2/4.3 before starting work on 10.3/4.4), updates have always lasted longer than I've wanted to keep using the devices. (if you have a GNex, give CM10.2 a try. It blew my hair back. Felt like a brand new phone.) To me, having unlocked bootloaders is a bigger selling point than stock updates... I won't be upgrading to the Nexus 5 mainly because I don't really see much improvement over my Nexus 4 w/ CM 10.2 - I have unlocked LTE that works great w/ T-Mobile where I am, it runs quick/smoothly enough, and well, the camera apparently is still bad on the Nexus 5... (that's what the 5s is for)
cptskippy 13y ago
I doubt anyone at Google was thrilled about dropping support but I suspect this was an unavoidable conclusion they came to based on the loss of support from the supplier of the CPU for the Galaxy Nexus. The Galaxy Nexus uses a TI OMAP CPU and last September(2012) TI announced it was stopping development of OMAP solutions and shifting it's focus to embedded processors. In November it then laid off 1700 people in the OMAP division and moved everyone remaining into their embedded division. This was around the time Jelly Bean was released and probably before development on KitKat started. Considering how tumultuous layoffs and reorganizations are, it wouldn't surprise me if any engineering support Google needed from TI fell on deaf ears. This leaves Google in a very awkward position.
- josteink 13y ago
  Considering how tumultuous layoffs and reorganizations are, it wouldn't surprise me if any engineering support Google needed from TI fell on deaf ears. This leaves Google in a very awkward position. Sure that's a reason, but it's not an excuse. Had something like this happened to for instance Microsoft or Apple, they would have footed the bill, engineered a solution, and lived up to what they promised their customers in the first place. That's why you have a profit-margin after all: To foot the bill when (and not if) something unexpected happens and doesn't go according to plan. Here Google is just cascading their own problems with their own sub-contractors directly on to their customers and saying, "Hey! Sorry. You're screwed. And btw we'll keep the money you paid us". That's totally unprofessional and completely uncool.
  - cptskippy 13y ago
    I was simply providing you with a technical reason for why support for newer operating systems might have been dropped. I think you're being complete unrealistic with your expectations or that your understanding of what being a Nexus device means. Google has not announced that it is discontinuing support for the Galaxy Nexus, just that it won't receive the latest and greatest OS. Had something like this happened to for instance Microsoft or Apple, they would have footed the bill, engineered a solution, and lived up to what they promised their customers in the first place. Are you really citing Apple as a credible reference for an upstanding company? I'm going to cite 1st Generation iPad which was released in 2010, discontinued in 2011 and received one iOS upgrade as proof you're full of it. On top of, that numerous Apple devices have only had 2 years of software updates (e.g. iPod Touch 4th Gen) before being discontinued. Furthermore Apple has settle numerous lawsuits and class action suits filed against it for failure to repair devices under warranty, claiming such bizarre things as being a smoker creates a hazardous operating environment in violation of the warranty. They've had numerous lawsuits against them for manufacturing defects on devices that resulted in high numbers of failures outside of warranty periods (e.g. iBook power-on issue). Microsoft ships a baseline package of drivers but it's up to vendors and device manufacturers to maintain driver support for Microsoft's Operating Systems so that's not even a valid comparison. That's why you have a profit-margin after all No, that's not why you have profit-margins. But even if it were, Google is selling the devices at or near cost so there isn't much margin to work with. So using your own logic against you, getting an OS update this summer on a device that's 2 years old that never made a profit is pretty crazy. That's totally unprofessional and completely uncool. You're completely unreasonable.

sghill 13y ago

> Buying whatever Nexus is out there when I needed a new phone has always been a no-brainer. Not so anymore. Interesting, I would not have expected so much importance to be placed on unspecified rolling updates. My current phone is the only Nexus device I've ever had, but it was easily my best unlocked option at $250-300 US. I think that holds whether it's running 4.2 or the latest.

josteink 13y ago
> Interesting, I would not have expected so much importance to be placed on unspecified rolling updates. The Galaxy Nexus was sold on software and on software alone. It's hardware was if not underwhelming, certainly not best of breed available in the market when it was launched. And it was launched with a price to match high-end phones from other Android OEMs. If you bought this phone, you bought it because you wanted software updates. And when you consider today's smart-phone market, phones have enough RAM, CPU cores and god knows what. New hardware is not really that interesting. All the good, new and exciting stuff happens in software. From that point of view, Google just shit on the only thing which made the Galaxy Nexus worth buying in the first place. They just outright told the market: Not even a recent Nexus is guaranteed Android updates. That's a severe breach of trust.
- throwaway1979 13y ago
  Nexus One and Nexus S buyer here. Had a terrible experience with both these devices. The way I see it, customer service isn't a priority on these devices. But the devices are pretty open so the community finds solutions. I'll give you a shocking example. There was a bug on one of the Nexus devices I owned where if you were in a deadzone for more than a few minutes, the radio would crash. I kid you not! The stupid radio would crash whenever my train went into the deadzone of the Grand Central approach. No fix, no official word. Then, some programmer released a free app where if your radio was out for more than 1-2 mins, it would automatically shutoff your radio. Got me going. This is why I would not suggest my wife or any non-tech person to get a nexus device. If you are a tech person, it is probably okay. I'm considering a Nexus 5 myself.
- sghill 13y ago
  Fair enough, I'd be reacting similarly I'm sure. I get that two years is too short, but how long do you expect a device like this to be supported? I think I recall three major updates for my original iPhone, but by the last update it was almost unusably slow.
  - josteink 13y ago
    Google changed versioning schema when rolling out Jelly Bean. On Gingerbread, the various minor updates was versioned 2.3.3, 2.3.4, etc. On Jelly Bean, they were version 4.1, 4.2 and 4.3, but they were all still minor updates. When you look at it that way, the Galaxy Nexus received one major update and that was it. That's less than most "flagship" consumer devices sold, which typically receive at least two. As for what I expect from a Nexus, I demand a minimum of two, but find it reasonable to expect three. From this, it seems clear that Google has completely lost its commitment to the Nexus-brand, and to me that makes the Nexus-brand completely uninteresting.
    - cptskippy 13y ago
      As for what I expect from a Nexus What you expect and what is promised are not the same, in this case they are very different. I demand a minimum of two, but find it reasonable to expect three. So now it's an unrealistic demand you're making, and not their failure to keep a promise (they never actually made)? From this, it seems clear that Google has completely lost its commitment to the Nexus-brand Regardless of the circumstances, this is an absurd claim.
  - magnet_ball 13y ago
    It's not the amount as much as the lifetime. I live in that ancient belief that you should be able to keep your phone functioning happily for 3 years, which is exactly what happened with my iPhone 4, by iOS 6 it became slow and kind of crashy but usable and it did everything I wanted it to (even if it didn't get all the new features like the new navigation or Siri). But the main point is that it kept going for more than 3 years, and the Galaxy Nexus, a phone that was really expensive at the time does not get the new update just a year and a half after release. That's half of the lifetime I expect of a phone.
- lhl 13y ago
  While I can sympathize, the Nexus line's promise has always been shifting... Vanilla Android and timely updates were what Google were pushing for the GNex, but these days it seems to mostly be serving as vague mid-range price pressure? The only real common thread for the phones seem to be that they were primarily Google dev devices. And while it might have been an implicit promise, sadly, I don't think long-term support (or any customer support, really) was ever much in the cards. FWIW my Google devices (from G1 on) have all eventually migrated to CyanogenMod, where they've run better than they ever did on stock. While CM isn't rushing to 4.4 (the plan is to land 10.2/4.3 before starting work on 10.3/4.4), updates have always lasted longer than I've wanted to keep using the devices. (if you have a GNex, give CM10.2 a try. It blew my hair back. Felt like a brand new phone.) To me, having unlocked bootloaders is a bigger selling point than stock updates... I won't be upgrading to the Nexus 5 mainly because I don't really see much improvement over my Nexus 4 w/ CM 10.2 - I have unlocked LTE that works great w/ T-Mobile where I am, it runs quick/smoothly enough, and well, the camera apparently is still bad on the Nexus 5... (that's what the 5s is for)

cptskippy 13y ago

I doubt anyone at Google was thrilled about dropping support but I suspect this was an unavoidable conclusion they came to based on the loss of support from the supplier of the CPU for the Galaxy Nexus. The Galaxy Nexus uses a TI OMAP CPU and last September(2012) TI announced it was stopping development of OMAP solutions and shifting it's focus to embedded processors. In November it then laid off 1700 people in the OMAP division and moved everyone remaining into their embedded division. This was around the time Jelly Bean was released and probably before development on KitKat started. Considering how tumultuous layoffs and reorganizations are, it wouldn't surprise me if any engineering support Google needed from TI fell on deaf ears. This leaves Google in a very awkward position.

josteink 13y ago
Considering how tumultuous layoffs and reorganizations are, it wouldn't surprise me if any engineering support Google needed from TI fell on deaf ears. This leaves Google in a very awkward position. Sure that's a reason, but it's not an excuse. Had something like this happened to for instance Microsoft or Apple, they would have footed the bill, engineered a solution, and lived up to what they promised their customers in the first place. That's why you have a profit-margin after all: To foot the bill when (and not if) something unexpected happens and doesn't go according to plan. Here Google is just cascading their own problems with their own sub-contractors directly on to their customers and saying, "Hey! Sorry. You're screwed. And btw we'll keep the money you paid us". That's totally unprofessional and completely uncool.
- cptskippy 13y ago
  I was simply providing you with a technical reason for why support for newer operating systems might have been dropped. I think you're being complete unrealistic with your expectations or that your understanding of what being a Nexus device means. Google has not announced that it is discontinuing support for the Galaxy Nexus, just that it won't receive the latest and greatest OS. Had something like this happened to for instance Microsoft or Apple, they would have footed the bill, engineered a solution, and lived up to what they promised their customers in the first place. Are you really citing Apple as a credible reference for an upstanding company? I'm going to cite 1st Generation iPad which was released in 2010, discontinued in 2011 and received one iOS upgrade as proof you're full of it. On top of, that numerous Apple devices have only had 2 years of software updates (e.g. iPod Touch 4th Gen) before being discontinued. Furthermore Apple has settle numerous lawsuits and class action suits filed against it for failure to repair devices under warranty, claiming such bizarre things as being a smoker creates a hazardous operating environment in violation of the warranty. They've had numerous lawsuits against them for manufacturing defects on devices that resulted in high numbers of failures outside of warranty periods (e.g. iBook power-on issue). Microsoft ships a baseline package of drivers but it's up to vendors and device manufacturers to maintain driver support for Microsoft's Operating Systems so that's not even a valid comparison. That's why you have a profit-margin after all No, that's not why you have profit-margins. But even if it were, Google is selling the devices at or near cost so there isn't much margin to work with. So using your own logic against you, getting an OS update this summer on a device that's 2 years old that never made a profit is pretty crazy. That's totally unprofessional and completely uncool. You're completely unreasonable.