4 ms·

This comment is ridiculous. The big players have been playing a patent chess game since 2007. Don't forget Google bid for these patents as well and it's compl

by bstar77 13y ago

This comment is ridiculous. The big players have been playing a patent chess game since 2007. Don't forget Google bid for these patents as well and it's completely ignorant to think they would have not exercised their billion $+ purchase. Google took the initiative a year ago with their Motorola patent portfolio, Samsung took the initiative with their FRAND patents, Apple took the initiative with their design portfolio, Microsoft took the initiative by funding SCO and suing android OEMs and now this conglomerate is taking the initiative with the Nortel patents. This is a war with many players willing to stifle the industry until this gets sorted out. All players are responsible, but this terrible system requires that you get involved and are proactive in protecting your intellectual property. Go sell your mac and get an ultra book. Go learn Java and ditch obj-c. But do it because you prefer those products, not because you think you are taking the moral high ground.

ekianjo 13y ago
If I remember correctly, Google has always said they would only use these patents in a defensive manner if they ever get them. http://www.androidcentral.com/google-pledges-only-use-open-source-related-patents-defensively http://www.androidcentral.com/google-pledges-only-use-open-s... That's very different from Apple or Microsoft.
- bstar77 13y ago
  I disagree, microsoft tried to destroy linux by coercing companies to pay a bogus linux tax. Microsoft also footed the bill for SCO's case against Linux. MS' record is atrocious here. Motorola Mobility sued apple in 2010. Just last month Motorola filed a motion to reopen their case against Apple. Again, all of these companies are deeply involved in this game of patents.
  - ekianjo 13y ago
    > Motorola Mobility sued apple in 2010. As far as I know Google acquired Motorola Mobility in 2011. So they had nothing to do with the original suit. As for last month's one, I don't know about the details. > I disagree, microsoft tried to destroy linux Where did I say Microsoft was clean ?
- threeseed 13y ago
  Please. Stop acting like Google is some innocent child. It's pathetic. Google has been using SEPs as weapons and undermining standards and the huge benefits they bring to humanity.
  - makomk 13y ago
    If I were to blame one company for undermining standards, it'd be Apple for consistently refusing to license standards-essential patents and Obama for protecting Apple. Remember, the reason all their other competitors have so many standards-essential patents and Apple have essentially none is because the other companies worked to develop those standards and Apple just came along years later and took the benefit of their work for free whilst suing them over dubious software patents. What's the point of putting in the work and money to actually develop standards if someone can walk into your industry, take all that work for free, and use their non-FRAND-licensed patents to stop you from selling anything? Far better to forget standards, abandon fundamental technology work, and spend the time and money building your own non-FRAND patent warchest instead.
    - _djo_ 13y ago
      Apple has a fair number of standards-essential patents as well, but they have not been used in a lawsuit to date. These include networking patents (notably zeroconf) and are always made available by Apple via the following statement: In the event that the technology discussed in the Document becomes an IETF standard (the "Standard") which is not materially different from the Document, Apple agrees, upon written request from a Party to negotiate outside of IETF to make available a non-exclusive license under reasonable and non-discriminatory ("RAND") terms and conditions under such claims of the Patents that are essential to implement a product compliant with the Standard (a "Compliant Product"). These RAND terms and conditions may be conditional upon a reciprocal grant or defense use. However it has yet to demand reciprocal grants of design patents from others for licensing. The company has not refused to license SEPs, it has refused to license them with a cross-patent agreement that includes their design patents, as their view is that SEPs should be offered on fair monetary licensing terms. That does not necessarily mean their stance is right (or that Apple is innocent because they're quite clearly not), but it's a lot more complex and defensible than you've implied here.
- eridius 13y ago
  Google says a lot of things. But they've shown time and time again that they're willing to ignore their past promises and do whatever they feel is in their best interests at the moment. Remember "Don't be evil"? Even if they were sincere when they said that, I fully expect that they would have changed their minds within a few years of actually winning. Remember, they've already shown a willingness to use patents offensively.
throwaway98604 13y ago
It's only partially about taking the morally high ground; I'm afraid Apple is going to start losing significant market share. i.e. I always hear of friends and colleagues who switch from the iPhone to Android (and not vice-versa). And from what I've seen Google is also actually making significant improvements Android's API instead of Apple's method of just making aesthetic changes (and some argue making it worse).
- jemeshsu 13y ago
  You must be kidding if you think iOS 7 is just aesthetic changes. So Apple iOS engineers took one year leave and left their designer colleges update iOS 6 to new look?
  - throwaway98604 13y ago
    Significant consumer-facing iOS 7 Changes: UI Inter-app audio Background fetch P2P (arguably, this isn't a new feature, it's essentially a wrapper to dns_sd) Airdrop Significant KitKat changes: *Actual* SMS/MMS API Storage access framework Printing framework Plus, Inter-app audio and Airdrop are essentially wrappers to P2P (which is also a wrapper to dns_sd), so the only real added feature was background fetch. You could say the same about KitKat (except for SMS), so really it boils down to this: iOS 7: UI Background fetch KitKat: SMS/MSS API Which Android still wins, IMO. Plus, Android already has way more features than iOS already, not to mention the ability to install unsigned software, NFC, custom lockscreens/launchers and who knows what else.
    - jemeshsu 13y ago
      Both are mature OS, ground breaking features are not expected. I'm not familiar with Android, but iOS tends to introduce new and improved API in each release that makes app development easier, there is lesser need to go down to core OS to develop your app. Beside what you mentioned, new in iOS 7: TextKit for fine typography control makes it easier to write text layout and editor; SpriteKit which is higher level framework for writing 2/2.5D games; game controller framework for standardise interface to game controller; 64-bit support; Open GL ES 3.
antocv 13y ago
yours is a straw man. tne choice isnt between apple and google or microsoft. the choice is between proprietary vs freedom software. dump your apples and macs. choose archlinux, gnu and linux-libre.

by bstar77 13y ago

ekianjo 13y ago

If I remember correctly, Google has always said they would only use these patents in a defensive manner if they ever get them. http://www.androidcentral.com/google-pledges-only-use-open-source-related-patents-defensively http://www.androidcentral.com/google-pledges-only-use-open-s... That's very different from Apple or Microsoft.

bstar77 13y ago
I disagree, microsoft tried to destroy linux by coercing companies to pay a bogus linux tax. Microsoft also footed the bill for SCO's case against Linux. MS' record is atrocious here. Motorola Mobility sued apple in 2010. Just last month Motorola filed a motion to reopen their case against Apple. Again, all of these companies are deeply involved in this game of patents.
- ekianjo 13y ago
  > Motorola Mobility sued apple in 2010. As far as I know Google acquired Motorola Mobility in 2011. So they had nothing to do with the original suit. As for last month's one, I don't know about the details. > I disagree, microsoft tried to destroy linux Where did I say Microsoft was clean ?
threeseed 13y ago
Please. Stop acting like Google is some innocent child. It's pathetic. Google has been using SEPs as weapons and undermining standards and the huge benefits they bring to humanity.
- makomk 13y ago
  If I were to blame one company for undermining standards, it'd be Apple for consistently refusing to license standards-essential patents and Obama for protecting Apple. Remember, the reason all their other competitors have so many standards-essential patents and Apple have essentially none is because the other companies worked to develop those standards and Apple just came along years later and took the benefit of their work for free whilst suing them over dubious software patents. What's the point of putting in the work and money to actually develop standards if someone can walk into your industry, take all that work for free, and use their non-FRAND-licensed patents to stop you from selling anything? Far better to forget standards, abandon fundamental technology work, and spend the time and money building your own non-FRAND patent warchest instead.
  - _djo_ 13y ago
    Apple has a fair number of standards-essential patents as well, but they have not been used in a lawsuit to date. These include networking patents (notably zeroconf) and are always made available by Apple via the following statement: In the event that the technology discussed in the Document becomes an IETF standard (the "Standard") which is not materially different from the Document, Apple agrees, upon written request from a Party to negotiate outside of IETF to make available a non-exclusive license under reasonable and non-discriminatory ("RAND") terms and conditions under such claims of the Patents that are essential to implement a product compliant with the Standard (a "Compliant Product"). These RAND terms and conditions may be conditional upon a reciprocal grant or defense use. However it has yet to demand reciprocal grants of design patents from others for licensing. The company has not refused to license SEPs, it has refused to license them with a cross-patent agreement that includes their design patents, as their view is that SEPs should be offered on fair monetary licensing terms. That does not necessarily mean their stance is right (or that Apple is innocent because they're quite clearly not), but it's a lot more complex and defensible than you've implied here.
eridius 13y ago
Google says a lot of things. But they've shown time and time again that they're willing to ignore their past promises and do whatever they feel is in their best interests at the moment. Remember "Don't be evil"? Even if they were sincere when they said that, I fully expect that they would have changed their minds within a few years of actually winning. Remember, they've already shown a willingness to use patents offensively.

throwaway98604 13y ago

It's only partially about taking the morally high ground; I'm afraid Apple is going to start losing significant market share. i.e. I always hear of friends and colleagues who switch from the iPhone to Android (and not vice-versa). And from what I've seen Google is also actually making significant improvements Android's API instead of Apple's method of just making aesthetic changes (and some argue making it worse).

jemeshsu 13y ago
You must be kidding if you think iOS 7 is just aesthetic changes. So Apple iOS engineers took one year leave and left their designer colleges update iOS 6 to new look?
- throwaway98604 13y ago
  Significant consumer-facing iOS 7 Changes: UI Inter-app audio Background fetch P2P (arguably, this isn't a new feature, it's essentially a wrapper to dns_sd) Airdrop Significant KitKat changes: *Actual* SMS/MMS API Storage access framework Printing framework Plus, Inter-app audio and Airdrop are essentially wrappers to P2P (which is also a wrapper to dns_sd), so the only real added feature was background fetch. You could say the same about KitKat (except for SMS), so really it boils down to this: iOS 7: UI Background fetch KitKat: SMS/MSS API Which Android still wins, IMO. Plus, Android already has way more features than iOS already, not to mention the ability to install unsigned software, NFC, custom lockscreens/launchers and who knows what else.
  - jemeshsu 13y ago
    Both are mature OS, ground breaking features are not expected. I'm not familiar with Android, but iOS tends to introduce new and improved API in each release that makes app development easier, there is lesser need to go down to core OS to develop your app. Beside what you mentioned, new in iOS 7: TextKit for fine typography control makes it easier to write text layout and editor; SpriteKit which is higher level framework for writing 2/2.5D games; game controller framework for standardise interface to game controller; 64-bit support; Open GL ES 3.

antocv 13y ago

yours is a straw man. tne choice isnt between apple and google or microsoft. the choice is between proprietary vs freedom software. dump your apples and macs. choose archlinux, gnu and linux-libre.