4 ms·

I agree. Two different things being discussed as one. 1) Everyone should have at least one outfit that is super classy. A cheap solution is a Salvation Army

I agree. Two different things being discussed as one. 1) Everyone should have at least one outfit that is super classy. A cheap solution is a Salvation Army or Goodwill store in a nice part of town. 2) People who live on the dole and buy things they clearly don't need or deserve. Rocking an iPhone 5 while using your food stamp debit card at the grocery store to buy junk food is the typical "Stupid" poor person move most people hate to see. There's no justification for that.

Nate75Sanders 13y ago
Man, the iPhone 5 really is not a very good example here. If you wear your super classy outfit to an interview AND you have the iPhone 5 instead of a prepaid Android phone (or worse -- a prepaid non-smartphone), it's going to show that you "belong" and that you're not poor. Some people really do pay attention to what kind of phone you have, particularly for these gateway-straddling jobs that the author talks about in the article.
- MrZongle2 13y ago
  Counterpoint: after the novelty of wearing the super classy outfit and waving the iPhone 5 wears off once you have a job, what else do you now have to purchase -- outside your means -- to convince your co-workers that you "belong"? It would be cheaper to look for a job in an environment that is more interested in what you can do rather than what you tote. That is, after all, what most of us end up doing.
  - Nate75Sanders 13y ago
    That's not a counterpoint in poor-person logic. It's a counterpoint in you-the-guy-who-has-more-correct-assumptions logic. This is what I'm trying to get across with my posts on this topic. People keep using reasoning from within a higher-class group where you already know the rules and assumptions of the game. The whole point is that the people below don't.
  - mcv 13y ago
    It would be awesome if HR people only ever judged people on skill, and not on appearance or presentation. But if there's one big takeaway from this article, it's that there really are gatekeepers that filter people based on whether they "belong". Faking that belonging can be incredibly important to escape the poverty trap.
  - gaius 13y ago
    You probably genuinely do believe that, but the tech industry is notorious for superficial judgements - consider that you would know exactly what I meant if I described someone as a "suit". Maybe he's just a guy who likes to dress well? Maybe he was born in a more conservative culture and that's just what people wear? But God help him if he shows up to the interview in it.
- 300bps 13y ago
  Want to be really classy in an interview? Leave your smart, dumb or average phone at home.
  - theorique 13y ago
    They aren't talking about using a phone in an interview. A smart phone is a valuable tool for a professional. Being able to send an email or call from the road when you're running late, or to receive same when your counterpart is running late - people expect this nowadays. Of course, during the actual interview, it should go without saying to put it on silent and leave it in your pocket or purse.
- goggles99 13y ago
  >Man, the iPhone 5 really is not a very good example here. The iPhone 5 is a great example. The iPhone 3gs or 4 is hardly distinguishable and costs 1/5 the price. You cannot play some high end games with those phones, but that shouldn't prevent one's economic improvement.
moocowduckquack 13y ago
buy things they clearly don't need or deserve. Deserve? Where does deserve come into this? Posessing money makes it easy to aquire things, but having it or lacking it doesn't say anything about if someone deserves something or not.
- IanDrake 13y ago
  >Posessing money makes it easy to aquire things Flat out wrong. There are three ways to acquire things: - Trade (with money or goods of value) - Beg - Steal I ordered that list in order of HARDEST to EASIEST way to acquire things.
  - moocowduckquack 13y ago
    You are a loony. If I walk into a shop with a ton of money, then I can walk out with far more stuff and with much less effort than trying to steal from the shop or beg for free stuff from it.
barrkel 13y ago
Deserve? Are you making a moral judgement about income?
- IanDrake 13y ago
  About income, no. About stealing yes. If you are on the dole and you are a buying things that aren't necessary to survive, you are stealing. A relative of mine owns several condos and some of his renters are "Section 8". The state pays for 90% of their rent, they only need to come up with 10%. One guy who couldn't come up with his 10% (and got evicted) had an xbox connected to a big screen TV. How is that not stealing? If you take money from others to pay for your food or for your rent you don't deserve an xbox, a TV, an iPhone 5. You deserve to go the public library and learn something to make yourself more marketable. You deserve to work 3 jobs until you can pay your own way for necessities.
gaius 13y ago
Here's a trick: get your measurements, accurately, have someone do it for you with a tape measure. Then scour eBay and be patient. Eventually a suit that was hand-made for someone of your exact dimensions will come up, then you have to grab it. Whatever you pay won't be a fraction even of what it cost originally.
- brzed 13y ago
  That implies the following: -you have a computer -you have internet -you have an email address -you have any idea what ebay is (no seriously...that's not a reasonable assumption to make) -you have the money to buy THAT suit (oh, and a credit card and a paypal account) -you have somewhere safe to have it shipped -you even understand the lingo of suiting enough to what to look for. The company I currenlty work for recently hired a technician. The role is something we would call technical today but probably 15 years ago would have been the product of a vocational education. Those programs have been eliminated and pushed on companies to train for instead, companies that usually want experience before they will train. This week, our new guy (24 years old, self supporting, has a kid and a house) sent his first email. Obviously not all of these apply to every situation but the level of abstraction required to understand why this makes no sense to people like us isn't easy for most people.

Nate75Sanders 13y ago

Man, the iPhone 5 really is not a very good example here. If you wear your super classy outfit to an interview AND you have the iPhone 5 instead of a prepaid Android phone (or worse -- a prepaid non-smartphone), it's going to show that you "belong" and that you're not poor. Some people really do pay attention to what kind of phone you have, particularly for these gateway-straddling jobs that the author talks about in the article.

MrZongle2 13y ago
Counterpoint: after the novelty of wearing the super classy outfit and waving the iPhone 5 wears off once you have a job, what else do you now have to purchase -- outside your means -- to convince your co-workers that you "belong"? It would be cheaper to look for a job in an environment that is more interested in what you can do rather than what you tote. That is, after all, what most of us end up doing.
- Nate75Sanders 13y ago
  That's not a counterpoint in poor-person logic. It's a counterpoint in you-the-guy-who-has-more-correct-assumptions logic. This is what I'm trying to get across with my posts on this topic. People keep using reasoning from within a higher-class group where you already know the rules and assumptions of the game. The whole point is that the people below don't.
- mcv 13y ago
  It would be awesome if HR people only ever judged people on skill, and not on appearance or presentation. But if there's one big takeaway from this article, it's that there really are gatekeepers that filter people based on whether they "belong". Faking that belonging can be incredibly important to escape the poverty trap.
- gaius 13y ago
  You probably genuinely do believe that, but the tech industry is notorious for superficial judgements - consider that you would know exactly what I meant if I described someone as a "suit". Maybe he's just a guy who likes to dress well? Maybe he was born in a more conservative culture and that's just what people wear? But God help him if he shows up to the interview in it.
300bps 13y ago
Want to be really classy in an interview? Leave your smart, dumb or average phone at home.
- theorique 13y ago
  They aren't talking about using a phone in an interview. A smart phone is a valuable tool for a professional. Being able to send an email or call from the road when you're running late, or to receive same when your counterpart is running late - people expect this nowadays. Of course, during the actual interview, it should go without saying to put it on silent and leave it in your pocket or purse.
goggles99 13y ago
>Man, the iPhone 5 really is not a very good example here. The iPhone 5 is a great example. The iPhone 3gs or 4 is hardly distinguishable and costs 1/5 the price. You cannot play some high end games with those phones, but that shouldn't prevent one's economic improvement.

moocowduckquack 13y ago

buy things they clearly don't need or deserve. Deserve? Where does deserve come into this? Posessing money makes it easy to aquire things, but having it or lacking it doesn't say anything about if someone deserves something or not.

IanDrake 13y ago
>Posessing money makes it easy to aquire things Flat out wrong. There are three ways to acquire things: - Trade (with money or goods of value) - Beg - Steal I ordered that list in order of HARDEST to EASIEST way to acquire things.
- moocowduckquack 13y ago
  You are a loony. If I walk into a shop with a ton of money, then I can walk out with far more stuff and with much less effort than trying to steal from the shop or beg for free stuff from it.

barrkel 13y ago

Deserve? Are you making a moral judgement about income?

IanDrake 13y ago
About income, no. About stealing yes. If you are on the dole and you are a buying things that aren't necessary to survive, you are stealing. A relative of mine owns several condos and some of his renters are "Section 8". The state pays for 90% of their rent, they only need to come up with 10%. One guy who couldn't come up with his 10% (and got evicted) had an xbox connected to a big screen TV. How is that not stealing? If you take money from others to pay for your food or for your rent you don't deserve an xbox, a TV, an iPhone 5. You deserve to go the public library and learn something to make yourself more marketable. You deserve to work 3 jobs until you can pay your own way for necessities.

gaius 13y ago

Here's a trick: get your measurements, accurately, have someone do it for you with a tape measure. Then scour eBay and be patient. Eventually a suit that was hand-made for someone of your exact dimensions will come up, then you have to grab it. Whatever you pay won't be a fraction even of what it cost originally.

brzed 13y ago
That implies the following: -you have a computer -you have internet -you have an email address -you have any idea what ebay is (no seriously...that's not a reasonable assumption to make) -you have the money to buy THAT suit (oh, and a credit card and a paypal account) -you have somewhere safe to have it shipped -you even understand the lingo of suiting enough to what to look for. The company I currenlty work for recently hired a technician. The role is something we would call technical today but probably 15 years ago would have been the product of a vocational education. Those programs have been eliminated and pushed on companies to train for instead, companies that usually want experience before they will train. This week, our new guy (24 years old, self supporting, has a kid and a house) sent his first email. Obviously not all of these apply to every situation but the level of abstraction required to understand why this makes no sense to people like us isn't easy for most people.