5 ms·

As someone who is a non-US citizen going through the tortuous process of acquiring permanent residency in the US (estimated time: 8-10 years), I will advise any

As someone who is a non-US citizen going through the tortuous process of acquiring permanent residency in the US (estimated time: 8-10 years), I will advise any international people looking for their first job -- if you can get one in Berlin, Canada, or elsewhere, take it. The US immigration system is fraught with bureaucracy, and is structured such that employers have strong incentives to delay your application for permanent residency for as long as possible. This, combined with per-country caps on green cards, makes for a process where you spend a decade or more in a country as an "alien" when you are working there and paying large amounts of taxes towards a Social Security system etc. that you have no chance of using in your present state. (To be fair, there is a fair bit of reform in this system that has been proposed by Congress, but with the current state it is in, it could be years before those bills are passed and made into laws.)

pucallpa 13y ago
this ^^^ I worked in canada for a year and was offered to stay, my permanent residency would have been granted after 6 months and citizenship in 2 years. After 5 years in the US, I'm on this situation, even after obtained a Software Engineering master degree in the US from CMU, my application is being dragged.
- levosmetalo 13y ago
  That's why there's no rational reason experienced developer who have a wife and kids will choose USA over Germany. In USA he would first need to wait at least one year until his family can arrive, then wait for 5 or more years to get permanent residency (Green Card) in which period his wife will not have permission to work, and he would be unable to plan his future in any significant way because he would live on the edge of deportation if his current employer decide he doesn't work (good/hard/long) enough. That's at least six years of limbo in someones' life. It might be ok for singles with no kids, but noone else. Compare that to Germany where it takes at most 3 months to be completely settled with the family where wife also gets work permit, and children can start getting child benefits and going to state subsided kindergartens from the get go. I would start thinking about moving to US if and only if I would get Green Card from the start, but even then I'm not sure I would change EU(ropean) way of life for 50+ work weeks, one week of vacation and no payed sick or parental leave, super expensive education and no universal health care.
  - Aloisius 13y ago
    I'm not sure I would change EU(ropean) way of life for 50+ work weeks, one week of vacation and no payed sick or parental leave, super expensive education and no universal health care. No paid sick leave? One week of vacation? Super expensive education (for kindergarten???)? Where in the US are you talking about? While we don't tend to have laws mandating sick leave, nearly every company that you'd immigrate for gives it. I've never worked anywhere that didn't offer at least two weeks of vacation. Working 50+ hours is really a personal choice (as long as you work for an ethical employer) since it isn't legal to require someone to work more than 40 hours/week. I'm not sure about super expensive education. Out of state tuition is typically expensive if you want to go to a top university, but the average community college is downright cheap.
    - gsnedders 13y ago
      > I've never worked anywhere that didn't offer at least two weeks of vacation. Anecdotal, and also, in most of Europe one is legally obliged to have at least four weeks. I'm pretty sure I'd just burn-out quite quickly only having two weeks a year, myself.
      - levosmetalo 13y ago
        Anecdotal, but I personally don't know any engineer having less that 6 weeks of paid vacation here in Germany. Add to that 12 days of public holidays, a pair of days of "company holidays", and ability to actually get to (fully payed) sick leave whenever you get actually seek. Now, compare that to parent comment which obviously considers two weeks of vacation per year a good deal for the USA.
      - potatolicious 13y ago
        I'm on 3 weeks a year in the US and it feels entirely insufficient - 3 weeks is fairly standard for a senior role in a "good" company, btw. I work far away from where my family lives, meaning the only time I really get to see them is over Christmas. Simply going back to visit them eats up 2 weeks out of my 3 weeks. So each year I effectively only have one actual week for actual time off. It sucks. I am seriously considering negotiating for 5+ weeks at my next job, but this is basically unheard of in the USA.
- tokenadult 13y ago
  I worked in canada for a year and was offered to stay After 5 years in the US If I am reading this correctly, you came to the United States even though you had an opportunity to stay in Canada. What was the appeal of coming to the United States?
  - potatolicious 13y ago
    Software engineering salaries in Canada are half what you get from a top-flight US company (e.g., Google, Facebook, etc). Cost of living isn't that cheap either. Vancouver is an enormously expensive city to live in, and Toronto while cheaper also suffers from low software wages.
enraged_camel 13y ago
The best part is that the immigration officer assigned to your "case" can repeatedly ask for additional evidence (called RFE - request for evidence), and ultimately reject it for the most ridiculously superficial reasons. The way my lawyer explained it to me made perfect sense: USCIS's job is to reject visa applicants, not to accept them. The more visas they reject, the better they look in the eyes of an electorate who by and large hates foreigners "stealing" jobs from Americans.
CodeMage 13y ago
Let's say you knew someone who was granted an H1B1 visa based on a combination of some university education (but without getting a degree) and years of relevant experience in the field. Would this person stand a chance of being granted permanent residency?
- midnightclubbed 13y ago
  If your company is prepared to sponsor you for a Green Card (permanent residency) then yes your chances are likely very good. However, be prepared to be in process for a number of years - if the H1B1 expires and you are in Green Card process then you can get extensions, but if your application is then bounced for any reason you are visa-less. The process is stressful, but mostly just paperwork. Get a good immigration lawyer and make sure they do their homework . Good luck!
- jameshart 13y ago
  There are routes to permanent residency that don't require a degree - basically the only routes that absolutely require it are EB2 'advanced degree', or using a degree as evidence of 'exceptional ability', EB3 'professional' and EB1b 'outstanding professors and researchers'. Admittedly EB2 is probably the standard route for H1B holders, but there's also EB1a and EB1c if you qualify, and there's always good old EB3 'skilled worker', if you have time on your hands, or EB2 'exceptional ability' based on non-academic evidence. Or try getting married to an American.
lyricalpolymath 13y ago
What do you do while waiting for a permanent residency? do you have a visa sponsored by your employer or do you go out and back in every 3 months? (I'm a non-US looking to come to the US to launch a business)
- parennoob 13y ago
  Yep, your employer sponsors you using an H1-B. Not sure how this works out when you are the employer, but I think it depends upon level of investment or something.
bigd 13y ago
For the sake of having fun, do we want to add how fun is in the US: - getting a credit card (to build a credit score) when you have no credit score. - activate phone/internet: (incredible fees, pay for RECEIVING SMS (!!) ) - car insurance: ~1200$yr because your new driving license. - gas and electricity (at least in Chicago): require a SSN, and 10 days of background check.

pucallpa 13y ago

this ^^^ I worked in canada for a year and was offered to stay, my permanent residency would have been granted after 6 months and citizenship in 2 years. After 5 years in the US, I'm on this situation, even after obtained a Software Engineering master degree in the US from CMU, my application is being dragged.

levosmetalo 13y ago
That's why there's no rational reason experienced developer who have a wife and kids will choose USA over Germany. In USA he would first need to wait at least one year until his family can arrive, then wait for 5 or more years to get permanent residency (Green Card) in which period his wife will not have permission to work, and he would be unable to plan his future in any significant way because he would live on the edge of deportation if his current employer decide he doesn't work (good/hard/long) enough. That's at least six years of limbo in someones' life. It might be ok for singles with no kids, but noone else. Compare that to Germany where it takes at most 3 months to be completely settled with the family where wife also gets work permit, and children can start getting child benefits and going to state subsided kindergartens from the get go. I would start thinking about moving to US if and only if I would get Green Card from the start, but even then I'm not sure I would change EU(ropean) way of life for 50+ work weeks, one week of vacation and no payed sick or parental leave, super expensive education and no universal health care.
- Aloisius 13y ago
  I'm not sure I would change EU(ropean) way of life for 50+ work weeks, one week of vacation and no payed sick or parental leave, super expensive education and no universal health care. No paid sick leave? One week of vacation? Super expensive education (for kindergarten???)? Where in the US are you talking about? While we don't tend to have laws mandating sick leave, nearly every company that you'd immigrate for gives it. I've never worked anywhere that didn't offer at least two weeks of vacation. Working 50+ hours is really a personal choice (as long as you work for an ethical employer) since it isn't legal to require someone to work more than 40 hours/week. I'm not sure about super expensive education. Out of state tuition is typically expensive if you want to go to a top university, but the average community college is downright cheap.
  - gsnedders 13y ago
    > I've never worked anywhere that didn't offer at least two weeks of vacation. Anecdotal, and also, in most of Europe one is legally obliged to have at least four weeks. I'm pretty sure I'd just burn-out quite quickly only having two weeks a year, myself.
    - levosmetalo 13y ago
      Anecdotal, but I personally don't know any engineer having less that 6 weeks of paid vacation here in Germany. Add to that 12 days of public holidays, a pair of days of "company holidays", and ability to actually get to (fully payed) sick leave whenever you get actually seek. Now, compare that to parent comment which obviously considers two weeks of vacation per year a good deal for the USA.
    - potatolicious 13y ago
      I'm on 3 weeks a year in the US and it feels entirely insufficient - 3 weeks is fairly standard for a senior role in a "good" company, btw. I work far away from where my family lives, meaning the only time I really get to see them is over Christmas. Simply going back to visit them eats up 2 weeks out of my 3 weeks. So each year I effectively only have one actual week for actual time off. It sucks. I am seriously considering negotiating for 5+ weeks at my next job, but this is basically unheard of in the USA.
tokenadult 13y ago
I worked in canada for a year and was offered to stay After 5 years in the US If I am reading this correctly, you came to the United States even though you had an opportunity to stay in Canada. What was the appeal of coming to the United States?
- potatolicious 13y ago
  Software engineering salaries in Canada are half what you get from a top-flight US company (e.g., Google, Facebook, etc). Cost of living isn't that cheap either. Vancouver is an enormously expensive city to live in, and Toronto while cheaper also suffers from low software wages.

enraged_camel 13y ago

The best part is that the immigration officer assigned to your "case" can repeatedly ask for additional evidence (called RFE - request for evidence), and ultimately reject it for the most ridiculously superficial reasons. The way my lawyer explained it to me made perfect sense: USCIS's job is to reject visa applicants, not to accept them. The more visas they reject, the better they look in the eyes of an electorate who by and large hates foreigners "stealing" jobs from Americans.

CodeMage 13y ago

Let's say you knew someone who was granted an H1B1 visa based on a combination of some university education (but without getting a degree) and years of relevant experience in the field. Would this person stand a chance of being granted permanent residency?

midnightclubbed 13y ago
If your company is prepared to sponsor you for a Green Card (permanent residency) then yes your chances are likely very good. However, be prepared to be in process for a number of years - if the H1B1 expires and you are in Green Card process then you can get extensions, but if your application is then bounced for any reason you are visa-less. The process is stressful, but mostly just paperwork. Get a good immigration lawyer and make sure they do their homework . Good luck!
jameshart 13y ago
There are routes to permanent residency that don't require a degree - basically the only routes that absolutely require it are EB2 'advanced degree', or using a degree as evidence of 'exceptional ability', EB3 'professional' and EB1b 'outstanding professors and researchers'. Admittedly EB2 is probably the standard route for H1B holders, but there's also EB1a and EB1c if you qualify, and there's always good old EB3 'skilled worker', if you have time on your hands, or EB2 'exceptional ability' based on non-academic evidence. Or try getting married to an American.

lyricalpolymath 13y ago

What do you do while waiting for a permanent residency? do you have a visa sponsored by your employer or do you go out and back in every 3 months? (I'm a non-US looking to come to the US to launch a business)

parennoob 13y ago
Yep, your employer sponsors you using an H1-B. Not sure how this works out when you are the employer, but I think it depends upon level of investment or something.

bigd 13y ago

For the sake of having fun, do we want to add how fun is in the US: - getting a credit card (to build a credit score) when you have no credit score. - activate phone/internet: (incredible fees, pay for RECEIVING SMS (!!) ) - car insurance: ~1200$yr because your new driving license. - gas and electricity (at least in Chicago): require a SSN, and 10 days of background check.