4 ms·

Swiss system is awesome as a safety net but I am not quite sure if it helps the entrepreneurs. The moment you register a company(either as GmbH or AG) you basic

by kops 13y ago

Swiss system is awesome as a safety net but I am not quite sure if it helps the entrepreneurs. The moment you register a company(either as GmbH or AG) you basically kiss your social security goodbye. The only comfort is that if your startup fails within a year, then you just have to liquidate the company and you are back on the social security system. Not bad as a truly dooms-day-scenario.

vincentleeuwen 13y ago
Huh I thought the article suggests that you can indeed start a business while being part of the safety net?
- kops 13y ago
  NOTE: This post is probably useless for anyone other than the person I am replying to and the residents in Switzerland. You can start a business, but it can not be registered as a GmbH or AG(These are like LLC or Pvt. Ltd. companies). From the day you quit your job, you have 3 months, during which you still have to pretend as if you are looking for a job. After that RAV(unemployment insurance dept.) gets off your back for 4 months during which you can devote yourself to setting up the business. At the end of 4 months, you have to either start pretending to be looking for a job again or give up your benefits. I didn't really have to bother with all this because I really had to register my company. I also thought I was at a disadvantage due to me being a non-european founder but my lawyer assures me that this holds true for everyone. If you own shares in a GmbH or AG, you can not claim benefits from RAV. P.S. I didn't read the article and my understanding of social security and unemployment insurance is quite hazy. That's why I hired a lawyer. There are people who know how to game the system either to start a company or to go on extended holidays ;-), so that is possible e.g. as an Indian I could have registered my company in India without having any impact on my social security in Switzerland. But financial wizardy and legal games is not what I intend to devote my attention to...
  - gaadd33 13y ago
    Do these rules have limits on the percentage of the company you own or anything? I feel like there are some publicly traded GmbH or AG companies but I can't think of any off the top of my head. Would owning a few shares in any of those disqualify you?
mcv 13y ago
The article isn't about the current Swiss system, it's about replacing it with unconditional basic income. It wouldn't be uncinditional basic income if it didn't apply to entrepreneurs.
- kops 13y ago
  What you are saying is absolutely reasonable assumption to make. But let's face it, all social security systems are and should be to take care that people don't go hungry and start prostituting themselves for a loaf of bread. If I want to be an entrepreneur then I don't blame the authorities for showing me the door and telling me to fend for myself. I may have a different opinion in 2-3 months at the end of my runway though ;-)
  - mcv 13y ago
    In a system without basic income, sure. Just like someone with a good job won't need government assistance. But the point about basic income is that it's for everybody. From millionaires to homeless. And even entrepreneurs can be poor. Businesses can fail. They need that loaf of bread just like anyone else. The idea of basic income is that everybody can afford that loaf of bread. There are no gaps in the system to fall through. Nobody gets to decide whether you deserve it or not. But to get beyond that loaf of bread (and some basic shelter and health care), you need to work.

by kops 13y ago

vincentleeuwen 13y ago

Huh I thought the article suggests that you can indeed start a business while being part of the safety net?

kops 13y ago
NOTE: This post is probably useless for anyone other than the person I am replying to and the residents in Switzerland. You can start a business, but it can not be registered as a GmbH or AG(These are like LLC or Pvt. Ltd. companies). From the day you quit your job, you have 3 months, during which you still have to pretend as if you are looking for a job. After that RAV(unemployment insurance dept.) gets off your back for 4 months during which you can devote yourself to setting up the business. At the end of 4 months, you have to either start pretending to be looking for a job again or give up your benefits. I didn't really have to bother with all this because I really had to register my company. I also thought I was at a disadvantage due to me being a non-european founder but my lawyer assures me that this holds true for everyone. If you own shares in a GmbH or AG, you can not claim benefits from RAV. P.S. I didn't read the article and my understanding of social security and unemployment insurance is quite hazy. That's why I hired a lawyer. There are people who know how to game the system either to start a company or to go on extended holidays ;-), so that is possible e.g. as an Indian I could have registered my company in India without having any impact on my social security in Switzerland. But financial wizardy and legal games is not what I intend to devote my attention to...
- gaadd33 13y ago
  Do these rules have limits on the percentage of the company you own or anything? I feel like there are some publicly traded GmbH or AG companies but I can't think of any off the top of my head. Would owning a few shares in any of those disqualify you?

mcv 13y ago

The article isn't about the current Swiss system, it's about replacing it with unconditional basic income. It wouldn't be uncinditional basic income if it didn't apply to entrepreneurs.

kops 13y ago
What you are saying is absolutely reasonable assumption to make. But let's face it, all social security systems are and should be to take care that people don't go hungry and start prostituting themselves for a loaf of bread. If I want to be an entrepreneur then I don't blame the authorities for showing me the door and telling me to fend for myself. I may have a different opinion in 2-3 months at the end of my runway though ;-)
- mcv 13y ago
  In a system without basic income, sure. Just like someone with a good job won't need government assistance. But the point about basic income is that it's for everybody. From millionaires to homeless. And even entrepreneurs can be poor. Businesses can fail. They need that loaf of bread just like anyone else. The idea of basic income is that everybody can afford that loaf of bread. There are no gaps in the system to fall through. Nobody gets to decide whether you deserve it or not. But to get beyond that loaf of bread (and some basic shelter and health care), you need to work.