5 ms·

I strongly encourage everyone to abstain from buying the book or seeing the movie. You're lining Orson Scott Card's bigoted pockets to oppress sexual minorities

by meunier 13y ago

I strongly encourage everyone to abstain from buying the book or seeing the movie. You're lining Orson Scott Card's bigoted pockets to oppress sexual minorities.

VaedaStrike 13y ago
Understand his words in context before judging- http://www.hatrack.com/misc/Quotes_in_Context.shtml http://www.hatrack.com/misc/Quotes_in_Context.shtml
anatoly 13y ago
People like you are far more dangerous, in our times, than Orson Scott Card could ever be.
- DanBC 13y ago
  Why?
  - anatoly 13y ago
    Because of the mind-numbing tendency to politicize everything. Card's book and the movie have nothing to do with his bigoted views, and should stand or fall on their own. In fact, the book (and possibly the movie), with its strong moral stance that resonates with teenagers, is likely to spread far more good by encouraging its readers to think about bullying, suffering of others, etc. than Card could possibly do harm, even if he wanted to, with its proceeds. Historically, just about every famous writer has been bigoted about something; all of us are probably bigoted in some ways in which future generations will judge us. If the sanctimonious boycott calls leveled against Card succeeded in the past, we'd be left without many wonderful masterpieces that enrich our lives and deepen our understanding.
- daughart 13y ago
  Because pro-gay-rights activists have so much blood on their hands compared to homophobes and bigots. Oh right, it's the other way around. In America, a "vote" with a wallet means as much as a vote with a ballot.
- smirksirlot 13y ago
  So what you're saying is... asking people not to spend money to support Orson Scott Card is on the same scale as giving money to institutions and people to 1) lobby against sexual minority rights and 2) encourage foreign countries to have laws to criminalize queer behavior, resulting in more violence and attacks on queer people. Cool.
- mikeash 13y ago
  Asking people not to contribute money to bigots is dangerous? What?
  - talmand 13y ago
    Well, in this case I can't speak of it being dangerous, but it can be a bad precedent and have unintended consequences. Let's just go with the notion that Card is expressing his opinion on the matter. He has a right to this opinion, whether you agree with it or even if you consider it right or wrong. But anytime someone is allowed to shut down an opposing viewpoint it will eventually lead to problems. Once someone has the ability to shut down one opposing viewpoint they disagree with, then they will have the power to shut down any viewpoint they disagree with. Possibly even shutting down a viewpoint they think is of the opposition when it's likely it's not, such as a misunderstanding or being inarticulate. The difference being, a person actually has to commit actions against another human being to for a reaction need to take place. If someone says he doesn't like gays, fine, let the guy state his outdated rant and get on with your day. The moment the guy actually discriminates or commits an illegal act, then do something. As for consequences, this movie is an excellent example. If you boycott the movie because of your disagreement with Card, then you are hurting far more people then you will ever hurt Card. Another example, the Chik-Fil-A boycott a while back. That hurt local businesses run by local owners who employ local people far more than the dude at the top that still got paid no matter how much chicken you refused to eat. If anyone has the generic "you seem to defend what I don't like so I dislike you" reaction to this post, you are practically proving my point.
    - mikeash 13y ago
      I don't understand. Card has the right to express his opinion but I don't have the right to express mine? Deciding not to pay for a product is somehow dangerous? Expressing my opinion to other people and asking them to do the same is dangerous? If Card is allowed to say hateful things, then I'm allowed to tell people about it and recommend that they not give him money. It is not logically possible for you to accept the former without also accepting the latter.
- ceejayoz 13y ago
  [citation needed]
Pxtl 13y ago
I fully intend on watching it. Paying for it is another matter.
westicle 13y ago
There are many people who were and are wrong about certain things in life. Does that mean we should ignore their contributions in other areas out of spite? I can enjoy Polanksi's films whilst not condoning his private activities. I can appreciate the remarkable skill of Wayne Carey on the football field whilst acknowledging he is probably a prick in his personal life. Humans are all too often both brilliant and flawed in equal measures. Leaving that aside, did you read the article? Card isn't producing the movie. He sold the rights years ago. So unless you have a time machine, any lining you provide for his pockets is likely to be so indirect as to be inconsequential.
theorique 13y ago
I hear that, and I'm torn. On the one hand, homophobia. I think OSC's got a rather strange and potentially dangerous set of political views. But ... and this is a big but. It's Ender's Game!
talmand 13y ago
In danger of causing a "I think you're defending someone I dislike therefore I must dislike you" response, I think it would be good if you explain to the audience how exactly Orson Scott Card is personally oppressing sexual minorities. Plus explain how my going to see the movie is not good for the numerous people who have worked on this movie who will get paid that may not share in Card's viewpoints.
- theorique 13y ago
  The Wikipedia entry seems reasonably accurate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orson_scott_card#Views_about_homosexuality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orson_scott_card#Views_about_h...
  - talmand 13y ago
    If that's to be considered accurate then I don't quite see the homophobe boogey man people are trying to make him out to be. Seems to me he has a constantly changing attitude towards the matter that reflects the same education our society is currently going through. Yet, reading through the text, I fail to see how Card is personally oppressing sexual minorities.
    - theorique 13y ago
      If you don’t consider OSC to be obviously anti-gay based on the Wikipedia sources, I’m not sure what would convince you. Yes, he’s not personally driving a pickup truck around Utah with a gang looking to do some gay-bashing. But he obviously cares enough about the issue to write a lot of articles expressing clearly an anti-gay standpoint. Examples from the Wikipedia article: "The dark secret of homosexual society—the one that dares not speak its name—is how many homosexuals first entered into that world through a disturbing seduction or rape or molestation or abuse, and how many of them yearn to get out of the homosexual community and live normally." “Card stated that he regarded any government that would attempt to recognize same-sex marriage a "mortal enemy" that he would act to destroy”
      - 13y ago
Bostwick 13y ago
Could you provide some links or sources to substantiate your claim that Orson Scott Card is bigoted against sexual minorities? I'm a fan of the book, and I've been waiting to see this movie, but I confess that I don't know much about the author. Sources would be greatly appreciated.
- dsr_ 13y ago
  http://www.salon.com/2013/05/07/sci_fi_icon_orson_scott_card_hates_fan_fiction_the_homosexual_agenda_partner/ http://www.salon.com/2013/05/07/sci_fi_icon_orson_scott_card... gathers together most of your research for you. Just as talented programmers can be horrible people, so too can talented authors.
Shorel 13y ago
As long as you include almost all Christian and Islamic movements and sects into that group you don't want us to give money to, I fully approve of this encouragement.

by meunier 13y ago

I strongly encourage everyone to abstain from buying the book or seeing the movie. You're lining Orson Scott Card's bigoted pockets to oppress sexual minorities.

VaedaStrike 13y ago

Understand his words in context before judging- http://www.hatrack.com/misc/Quotes_in_Context.shtml http://www.hatrack.com/misc/Quotes_in_Context.shtml

anatoly 13y ago

People like you are far more dangerous, in our times, than Orson Scott Card could ever be.

DanBC 13y ago
Why?
- anatoly 13y ago
  Because of the mind-numbing tendency to politicize everything. Card's book and the movie have nothing to do with his bigoted views, and should stand or fall on their own. In fact, the book (and possibly the movie), with its strong moral stance that resonates with teenagers, is likely to spread far more good by encouraging its readers to think about bullying, suffering of others, etc. than Card could possibly do harm, even if he wanted to, with its proceeds. Historically, just about every famous writer has been bigoted about something; all of us are probably bigoted in some ways in which future generations will judge us. If the sanctimonious boycott calls leveled against Card succeeded in the past, we'd be left without many wonderful masterpieces that enrich our lives and deepen our understanding.
daughart 13y ago
Because pro-gay-rights activists have so much blood on their hands compared to homophobes and bigots. Oh right, it's the other way around. In America, a "vote" with a wallet means as much as a vote with a ballot.
smirksirlot 13y ago
So what you're saying is... asking people not to spend money to support Orson Scott Card is on the same scale as giving money to institutions and people to 1) lobby against sexual minority rights and 2) encourage foreign countries to have laws to criminalize queer behavior, resulting in more violence and attacks on queer people. Cool.
mikeash 13y ago
Asking people not to contribute money to bigots is dangerous? What?
- talmand 13y ago
  Well, in this case I can't speak of it being dangerous, but it can be a bad precedent and have unintended consequences. Let's just go with the notion that Card is expressing his opinion on the matter. He has a right to this opinion, whether you agree with it or even if you consider it right or wrong. But anytime someone is allowed to shut down an opposing viewpoint it will eventually lead to problems. Once someone has the ability to shut down one opposing viewpoint they disagree with, then they will have the power to shut down any viewpoint they disagree with. Possibly even shutting down a viewpoint they think is of the opposition when it's likely it's not, such as a misunderstanding or being inarticulate. The difference being, a person actually has to commit actions against another human being to for a reaction need to take place. If someone says he doesn't like gays, fine, let the guy state his outdated rant and get on with your day. The moment the guy actually discriminates or commits an illegal act, then do something. As for consequences, this movie is an excellent example. If you boycott the movie because of your disagreement with Card, then you are hurting far more people then you will ever hurt Card. Another example, the Chik-Fil-A boycott a while back. That hurt local businesses run by local owners who employ local people far more than the dude at the top that still got paid no matter how much chicken you refused to eat. If anyone has the generic "you seem to defend what I don't like so I dislike you" reaction to this post, you are practically proving my point.
  - mikeash 13y ago
    I don't understand. Card has the right to express his opinion but I don't have the right to express mine? Deciding not to pay for a product is somehow dangerous? Expressing my opinion to other people and asking them to do the same is dangerous? If Card is allowed to say hateful things, then I'm allowed to tell people about it and recommend that they not give him money. It is not logically possible for you to accept the former without also accepting the latter.
ceejayoz 13y ago
[citation needed]

Pxtl 13y ago

I fully intend on watching it. Paying for it is another matter.

westicle 13y ago

There are many people who were and are wrong about certain things in life. Does that mean we should ignore their contributions in other areas out of spite? I can enjoy Polanksi's films whilst not condoning his private activities. I can appreciate the remarkable skill of Wayne Carey on the football field whilst acknowledging he is probably a prick in his personal life. Humans are all too often both brilliant and flawed in equal measures. Leaving that aside, did you read the article? Card isn't producing the movie. He sold the rights years ago. So unless you have a time machine, any lining you provide for his pockets is likely to be so indirect as to be inconsequential.

theorique 13y ago

I hear that, and I'm torn. On the one hand, homophobia. I think OSC's got a rather strange and potentially dangerous set of political views. But ... and this is a big but. It's Ender's Game!

talmand 13y ago

In danger of causing a "I think you're defending someone I dislike therefore I must dislike you" response, I think it would be good if you explain to the audience how exactly Orson Scott Card is personally oppressing sexual minorities. Plus explain how my going to see the movie is not good for the numerous people who have worked on this movie who will get paid that may not share in Card's viewpoints.

theorique 13y ago
The Wikipedia entry seems reasonably accurate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orson_scott_card#Views_about_homosexuality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orson_scott_card#Views_about_h...
- talmand 13y ago
  If that's to be considered accurate then I don't quite see the homophobe boogey man people are trying to make him out to be. Seems to me he has a constantly changing attitude towards the matter that reflects the same education our society is currently going through. Yet, reading through the text, I fail to see how Card is personally oppressing sexual minorities.
  - theorique 13y ago
    If you don’t consider OSC to be obviously anti-gay based on the Wikipedia sources, I’m not sure what would convince you. Yes, he’s not personally driving a pickup truck around Utah with a gang looking to do some gay-bashing. But he obviously cares enough about the issue to write a lot of articles expressing clearly an anti-gay standpoint. Examples from the Wikipedia article: "The dark secret of homosexual society—the one that dares not speak its name—is how many homosexuals first entered into that world through a disturbing seduction or rape or molestation or abuse, and how many of them yearn to get out of the homosexual community and live normally." “Card stated that he regarded any government that would attempt to recognize same-sex marriage a "mortal enemy" that he would act to destroy”
    - 13y ago

Bostwick 13y ago

Could you provide some links or sources to substantiate your claim that Orson Scott Card is bigoted against sexual minorities? I'm a fan of the book, and I've been waiting to see this movie, but I confess that I don't know much about the author. Sources would be greatly appreciated.

dsr_ 13y ago
http://www.salon.com/2013/05/07/sci_fi_icon_orson_scott_card_hates_fan_fiction_the_homosexual_agenda_partner/ http://www.salon.com/2013/05/07/sci_fi_icon_orson_scott_card... gathers together most of your research for you. Just as talented programmers can be horrible people, so too can talented authors.

Shorel 13y ago

As long as you include almost all Christian and Islamic movements and sects into that group you don't want us to give money to, I fully approve of this encouragement.