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One way to make the humanities more attractive might be to dissolve the link between learning to express oneself in words and studying literature. To quote pg,

by mlchild 13y ago

One way to make the humanities more attractive might be to dissolve the link between learning to express oneself in words and studying literature. To quote pg, "students are writing not about how a baseball team with a small budget might compete with the Yankees, or the role of color in fashion, or what constitutes a good dessert, but about symbolism in Dickens." [1] While in high school I gutted it out in English so I could make it to my next math class, as I grow older I've found myself increasingly drawn to reading and writing. The power and precision of the right word at the right moment can be intoxicating. Perhaps if college and high school students were given the chance to peek into the whole world of opportunity in written expression, the humanities would see a resurgence. 1 - http://paulgraham.com/essay.html http://paulgraham.com/essay.html. "Moneyball" is one of my favorites and I've read an awful lot of thoughtful food-focused essays in the last few years, but does anyone have a good one on the role of color in fashion? The cerulean rant in "Devil Wears Prada?"

arethuza 13y ago
"The power and precision of the right word at the right moment can be intoxicating" Not only intoxicating but immensely powerful - we live in an age where politics is dominated by form rather than content, "spin" and being "on message" are more important that policies. Orwell, Koestler and others who were directly familiar with the totalitarian regimes understood the power of language and idea to shape and control people. Think of how important Goebbels was to the Nazis or how important the arts (or at least his control of the arts) were to Stalin - those are direct indicators of important these topics are. I'm rather amused that Orwell's essay on Politics and the English Language is features on HN's front page at the same time as this discussion. Edit: From 1984 'He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past.'
- bayesianhorse 13y ago
  I think spin and wording was never less powerful. Today it takes networks of tv-stations to influence a public opinion and even then those influencers are hardly omnipotent. Opinions can still change within a day. Also never before where there more people who were at least fundamentally capable of understanding politics. I often hear people say that the past was more democratic. Was it really? Or is it just that the constraints of reality are only revealed gradually over time to the individual, as his understanding increases and his age progresses. Then the past was always easier and less complicated?
  - 6d0debc071 13y ago
    > I often hear people say that the past was more democratic. Was it really? If the usefulness of single point of voting democracy is inversely related to the complexity of the problem space, then societies with fewer known concerns would - all else being equal - have been more democratic. Not saying that's what things were like, mind, but it's one of the things that might give that impression.
yummyfajitas 13y ago
Who would teach such a class? It's unlikely that English professors would. Maybe a few philosophy profs would, but there aren't a lot of people in humanities departments capable of teaching this. And for that reason, it doesn't address the fundamental problem (as perceived by university administrators): "We have 11 humanities departments that are quite extraordinary, and we want to provide for that faculty..." (The principal/agent problem is a common problem in non-profits, which are often merely schemes for funneling money to assorted insiders.)
- davidw 13y ago
  The one "English" class that I did not loathe in high school was a journalism class. It was about learning how to communicate with other people clearly and effectively and without the piles and piles of bullshit that regular literature classes trafficked in.
- ds9 13y ago
  It used to exist, it was called Rhetoric. It was one of the major academic areas from ancient times until recent centuries. Going from the literature-based native-language curriculum to one with Rhetoric and Literature separated out would be a big change, with much resistance - you're right about that. But such changes happen, and economic/political conditions may force such an evolution sooner or later. I agree with the parent that the mixture of these areas is problematic. The pg quotation above is perceptive.
subsystem 13y ago
"does anyone have a good one on the role of color in fashion?" "Blue is in fashion this year" from The Language of Fashion[0] might fit the bill. It has been several years since I read the book, but I remember it being quite difficult to get through. The rant in "The Devil Wears Prada" is fairly correct from a more practical standpoint. We're talking about things like trend development[1] and trickle-down theory[2] (in the fashion sense). If you only read one book on fashion it should probably be Fashion-ology[3]. "Perhaps if college and high school students were given the chance to peek into the whole world of opportunity in written expression, the humanities would see a resurgence." To be fair I'm not sure these fairly traditional elite universities are representative for all schools. [0] http://books.google.se/books/about/The_Language_of_Fashion.html?id=6snfAAAAMAAJ http://books.google.se/books/about/The_Language_of_Fashion.h... [1] Chapter 9 and 10: http://www.prschool.ge/img/every_day/Fashion%20Marketing.pdf http://www.prschool.ge/img/every_day/Fashion%20Marketing.pdf [2] http://www.margaritabenitez.com/trends/lectures/TRENDS_CH03.pdf http://www.margaritabenitez.com/trends/lectures/TRENDS_CH03.... [3] http://books.google.se/books/about/Fashion_ology.html?id=LUWTJWXZ2QQC http://books.google.se/books/about/Fashion_ology.html?id=LUW...

by mlchild 13y ago

arethuza 13y ago

"The power and precision of the right word at the right moment can be intoxicating" Not only intoxicating but immensely powerful - we live in an age where politics is dominated by form rather than content, "spin" and being "on message" are more important that policies. Orwell, Koestler and others who were directly familiar with the totalitarian regimes understood the power of language and idea to shape and control people. Think of how important Goebbels was to the Nazis or how important the arts (or at least his control of the arts) were to Stalin - those are direct indicators of important these topics are. I'm rather amused that Orwell's essay on Politics and the English Language is features on HN's front page at the same time as this discussion. Edit: From 1984 'He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past.'

bayesianhorse 13y ago
I think spin and wording was never less powerful. Today it takes networks of tv-stations to influence a public opinion and even then those influencers are hardly omnipotent. Opinions can still change within a day. Also never before where there more people who were at least fundamentally capable of understanding politics. I often hear people say that the past was more democratic. Was it really? Or is it just that the constraints of reality are only revealed gradually over time to the individual, as his understanding increases and his age progresses. Then the past was always easier and less complicated?
- 6d0debc071 13y ago
  > I often hear people say that the past was more democratic. Was it really? If the usefulness of single point of voting democracy is inversely related to the complexity of the problem space, then societies with fewer known concerns would - all else being equal - have been more democratic. Not saying that's what things were like, mind, but it's one of the things that might give that impression.

yummyfajitas 13y ago

Who would teach such a class? It's unlikely that English professors would. Maybe a few philosophy profs would, but there aren't a lot of people in humanities departments capable of teaching this. And for that reason, it doesn't address the fundamental problem (as perceived by university administrators): "We have 11 humanities departments that are quite extraordinary, and we want to provide for that faculty..." (The principal/agent problem is a common problem in non-profits, which are often merely schemes for funneling money to assorted insiders.)

davidw 13y ago
The one "English" class that I did not loathe in high school was a journalism class. It was about learning how to communicate with other people clearly and effectively and without the piles and piles of bullshit that regular literature classes trafficked in.
ds9 13y ago
It used to exist, it was called Rhetoric. It was one of the major academic areas from ancient times until recent centuries. Going from the literature-based native-language curriculum to one with Rhetoric and Literature separated out would be a big change, with much resistance - you're right about that. But such changes happen, and economic/political conditions may force such an evolution sooner or later. I agree with the parent that the mixture of these areas is problematic. The pg quotation above is perceptive.

subsystem 13y ago

"does anyone have a good one on the role of color in fashion?" "Blue is in fashion this year" from The Language of Fashion[0] might fit the bill. It has been several years since I read the book, but I remember it being quite difficult to get through. The rant in "The Devil Wears Prada" is fairly correct from a more practical standpoint. We're talking about things like trend development[1] and trickle-down theory[2] (in the fashion sense). If you only read one book on fashion it should probably be Fashion-ology[3]. "Perhaps if college and high school students were given the chance to peek into the whole world of opportunity in written expression, the humanities would see a resurgence." To be fair I'm not sure these fairly traditional elite universities are representative for all schools. [0] http://books.google.se/books/about/The_Language_of_Fashion.html?id=6snfAAAAMAAJ http://books.google.se/books/about/The_Language_of_Fashion.h... [1] Chapter 9 and 10: http://www.prschool.ge/img/every_day/Fashion%20Marketing.pdf http://www.prschool.ge/img/every_day/Fashion%20Marketing.pdf [2] http://www.margaritabenitez.com/trends/lectures/TRENDS_CH03.pdf http://www.margaritabenitez.com/trends/lectures/TRENDS_CH03.... [3] http://books.google.se/books/about/Fashion_ology.html?id=LUWTJWXZ2QQC http://books.google.se/books/about/Fashion_ology.html?id=LUW...