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Yeah, it's not like the German people are at all sensitive about the topic of having a secret, unaccountable organisation spying on them.

by swombat 13y ago

gdwatson 13y ago
I certainly can't blame them for being upset. But for a NATO country to expel the US embassy would be a very dramatic act with uncertain consequences. There's a lot of fallout to accept there, and the impact would be broader than US-German relations.
- SideburnsOfDoom 13y ago
  > for a NATO country to expel the US embassy would be a very dramatic act with uncertain consequences. Absolutely, but when German Interior Minister Hans-Peter Friedrich says "those responsible must be held accountable." I would guess that he means that there will, must be consequences. Closing the embassy is a consequence of last resort, if there is continued intransigence. Will that happen? that's up to the US government, and possibly not the elected part.
a3n 13y ago
As we're learning here in the US, there's a big difference and gap between "the people" and the government.
- jsmeaton 13y ago
  But there isn't! You might all feel that your government is misrepresenting you, but until serious action is taken, nothing is going to change. What that serious action is, I have no idea. Other countries have dealt with oppressive regimes before, some better than others.
  - a3n 13y ago
    But that's the thing, the government has strayed so far from the people that a) it's obvious they aren't going to seriously consider the people's will other than window dressing, and therefore b) the only way this kind of thing will change is through revolution. And we're far from revolution, if ever. The gap is there.
    - jsmeaton 13y ago
      I agree with you - but I don't think that absolves US citizens of responsibility either.
    - glitchdout 13y ago
      Replying to jsmeaton Indeed! They should be on the streets!
      - a3n 13y ago
        I was on the streets, in I think the first set of protests, in front of the Denver state capitol building. It was a fairly sedate protest, except where it went a little off topic toward the end. ("March on the city jail! -- Wait, what?") And I've communicated with my representatives. Udall is one of my Senators, and his staff got an email and an earful on the phone. And these days I vote third party, which to me is "None of the above." I'm done playing into their hands by voting for one because at least he's not the other. They're the same. I do think we're far from revolution, I hope never, but I wouldn't say it won't ever happen. The thing is, a few people are pissed and aware, and most don't care. But once the government realizes that they're getting away with whatever they're doing now, they'll do more. Eventually they'll grab so much power that we'll get sick of it and revolt. Or maybe they'll go against history and stop grabbing ever more power.
      - deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]

Yeah, it's not like the German people are at all sensitive about the topic of having a secret, unaccountable organisation spying on them.

by swombat 13y ago

Yeah, it's not like the German people are at all sensitive about the topic of having a secret, unaccountable organisation spying on them.

gdwatson 13y ago

I certainly can't blame them for being upset. But for a NATO country to expel the US embassy would be a very dramatic act with uncertain consequences. There's a lot of fallout to accept there, and the impact would be broader than US-German relations.

SideburnsOfDoom 13y ago
> for a NATO country to expel the US embassy would be a very dramatic act with uncertain consequences. Absolutely, but when German Interior Minister Hans-Peter Friedrich says "those responsible must be held accountable." I would guess that he means that there will, must be consequences. Closing the embassy is a consequence of last resort, if there is continued intransigence. Will that happen? that's up to the US government, and possibly not the elected part.

a3n 13y ago

As we're learning here in the US, there's a big difference and gap between "the people" and the government.

jsmeaton 13y ago
But there isn't! You might all feel that your government is misrepresenting you, but until serious action is taken, nothing is going to change. What that serious action is, I have no idea. Other countries have dealt with oppressive regimes before, some better than others.
- a3n 13y ago
  But that's the thing, the government has strayed so far from the people that a) it's obvious they aren't going to seriously consider the people's will other than window dressing, and therefore b) the only way this kind of thing will change is through revolution. And we're far from revolution, if ever. The gap is there.
  - jsmeaton 13y ago
    I agree with you - but I don't think that absolves US citizens of responsibility either.
  - glitchdout 13y ago
    Replying to jsmeaton Indeed! They should be on the streets!
    - a3n 13y ago
      I was on the streets, in I think the first set of protests, in front of the Denver state capitol building. It was a fairly sedate protest, except where it went a little off topic toward the end. ("March on the city jail! -- Wait, what?") And I've communicated with my representatives. Udall is one of my Senators, and his staff got an email and an earful on the phone. And these days I vote third party, which to me is "None of the above." I'm done playing into their hands by voting for one because at least he's not the other. They're the same. I do think we're far from revolution, I hope never, but I wouldn't say it won't ever happen. The thing is, a few people are pissed and aware, and most don't care. But once the government realizes that they're getting away with whatever they're doing now, they'll do more. Eventually they'll grab so much power that we'll get sick of it and revolt. Or maybe they'll go against history and stop grabbing ever more power.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]