6 ms·

Terrible name.

kevmoo1 13y ago
Agreed. The goal is great. The name implies malice.
numbsafari 13y ago
Agreed. One of the biggest issues with security-conscious systems is that people don't want to be seen as using something that only "people with something to hide" would be using. The average American watches a show like SVU and learns that TOR is how kiddie porn is traded, not that it is how dissidents in Iran or Russia communicate with Journalists. They hear about the "darknet" and assume that that is where illegal activity goes on. So "dark mail" gives the complete wrong connotation and basically means this is DOA unless they completely rebrand.
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  They may as well have named it "Mobster Mail"
devx 13y ago
Also agreed. It's for the same reason I don't like the name darknet. The FBI was already lobbying Congress and saying the Internet is "going dark", implying that they thought that will scare congress into acting, and giving them more powers. It should be named the Private Mail Protocol, or something. If it stands up to scrutiny, as soon as there is a nice looking e-mail client for it, I'll start using it, and try to use Gmail as little as possible, or not at all. I know Google won't adopt it, so I won't even bother to ask them to adopt it. I'll just switch.
- tg3 13y ago
  I think Google might adopt it. If it's decrypted in the client (i.e. the Gmail web interface) Google would still be able to inject ads based on your email. That allows them to maintain monetization while having the ability to claim end-to-end security.
acomjean 13y ago
I agree. This is a case where some marketing thinking would probably help. Lots of large businesses would probably like something like this (the ones that buy rsa keyfobs and use VPNs). My old company would strongly discourage email from the company system to non company email address for security reasons.
- bigiain 13y ago
  Having said that, many businesses have requirements for employee email that are startlingly close to what the NSA wants. We need info@, accounts@, support@ email addresses that can be read by many people. There also needs to be a way for someone other than Firstname Lastname to read the firstname.lastname@company.tld mail - either for oversight, vacation/illness covering, or hit-by-a-bus scenarios. There are probably certain businesses that have legal requirements about access to employee email. A shortsighted "secure/dark" email approach could easily be dead in the water in terms of corporate adoption if those requirements are not catered for. (I dont use my personal GPG key for any work related or firstname.lastname@company.tld mail, but have a separate GPG key – who's passphrase is in a sealed envelope in the company safe so it can be made available to the company if required without needing to reveal my personal private key. If I'm hit by a bus, or if lawyers/law-enforcemet come knocking on company business - they can have the keys to the encrypted mail in my company account. Mail encrypted to _me_ at nickname@company.tld or me@mydomain.tld is useless if I'm hit by a bus, and would require lawyers/leo/courts to convince me to reveal a passphrase stored only in my head if they wanted it. (Or, you know, for the NSA to rootkit any of my devices I type my personal passphrase into…))
lhl 13y ago
Like everyone else (with any common marketing sense), it seems like something like "security" or "privacy" would be much more positive connotations than "dark." A quick search shows SecureMail and PrivateMail are commercially used, but LockedMail and SignedMail aren't. I don't think it'd be too late to (eventually?) do a rebrand/cobrand for the product, especially if someone comes up w/ something particularly good. I think something that even a slight bit of spitballing would turn up something much better. Some thoughts on naming: * If the first word ends in e like securemail/privatemail you actually get email in the word * something that could be shortened like email, but will connote secure sending - "send me that via pmail/smail" * something that has familiar connotations of privacy/sealed delivery (registered mail?) or something might work as well
redblacktree 13y ago
I submit, "Envelope." It's a good analogy, since now we're essentially sending all of our email on postcards.
- slig 13y ago
  But Envelopes leak metadata as well.
  - bediger4000 13y ago
    The NSA gets "mail covers" on every piece of US Postal Service mail: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/04/us/monitoring-of-snail-mail.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/04/us/monitoring-of-snail-mai... the Mail Isolation Control and Tracking program, in which Postal Service computers photograph the exterior of every piece of paper mail that is processed in the United States
    - ape4 13y ago
      Wow, that's a new one to me. We really have to defund the NSA.
- MiguelHudnandez 13y ago
  An envelope is a good analogy for the 2.0 method described in the article. Contents are more secure but metadata is not.
- peatmoss 13y ago
  I'd posit that the French already have our backs. A few years ago, the official body that governs standardized French attempted to wean French-speaking people from the borrowed English terminology. Et voila! "Courriel," a portmanteau of courrier and electronique was pilfered from the Quebecois for the benefit of francophones everywhere. Sadly however, if Google Translate is any indicator, then "courriel" never made the leap from official to commonplace. Now, the electronic part is a given. But what about the courier part? Here's what Wikipedia says: > Couriers are distinguished from ordinary mail services by features such as speed, security, tracking, signature, specialization and individualization of express services, and swift delivery times, which are optional for most everyday mail services. As a premium service, couriers are usually more expensive than standard mail services, and their use is typically restricted to packages where one or more of these features are considered important enough to warrant the cost. Speed, security, individualization, premium? Those all sound like adjectives that I like! Let's do the L'Académie française a solid. Let's adopt Courriel and apply the label only to our fast, secure, individualized, premium electronic communiques.
r0muald 13y ago
At least they didn't make the mistake of calling it "Secure Mail".

Terrible name.

Agreed. The goal is great. The name implies malice.

Agreed. One of the biggest issues with security-conscious systems is that people don't want to be seen as using something that only "people with something to hide" would be using. The average American watches a show like SVU and learns that TOR is how kiddie porn is traded, not that it is how dissidents in Iran or Russia communicate with Journalists. They hear about the "darknet" and assume that that is where illegal activity goes on. So "dark mail" gives the complete wrong connotation and basically means this is DOA unless they completely rebrand.

sliverstorm 13y ago
They may as well have named it "Mobster Mail"

devx 13y ago

Also agreed. It's for the same reason I don't like the name darknet. The FBI was already lobbying Congress and saying the Internet is "going dark", implying that they thought that will scare congress into acting, and giving them more powers. It should be named the Private Mail Protocol, or something. If it stands up to scrutiny, as soon as there is a nice looking e-mail client for it, I'll start using it, and try to use Gmail as little as possible, or not at all. I know Google won't adopt it, so I won't even bother to ask them to adopt it. I'll just switch.

tg3 13y ago
I think Google might adopt it. If it's decrypted in the client (i.e. the Gmail web interface) Google would still be able to inject ads based on your email. That allows them to maintain monetization while having the ability to claim end-to-end security.

acomjean 13y ago

I agree. This is a case where some marketing thinking would probably help. Lots of large businesses would probably like something like this (the ones that buy rsa keyfobs and use VPNs). My old company would strongly discourage email from the company system to non company email address for security reasons.

bigiain 13y ago
Having said that, many businesses have requirements for employee email that are startlingly close to what the NSA wants. We need info@, accounts@, support@ email addresses that can be read by many people. There also needs to be a way for someone other than Firstname Lastname to read the firstname.lastname@company.tld mail - either for oversight, vacation/illness covering, or hit-by-a-bus scenarios. There are probably certain businesses that have legal requirements about access to employee email. A shortsighted "secure/dark" email approach could easily be dead in the water in terms of corporate adoption if those requirements are not catered for. (I dont use my personal GPG key for any work related or firstname.lastname@company.tld mail, but have a separate GPG key – who's passphrase is in a sealed envelope in the company safe so it can be made available to the company if required without needing to reveal my personal private key. If I'm hit by a bus, or if lawyers/law-enforcemet come knocking on company business - they can have the keys to the encrypted mail in my company account. Mail encrypted to _me_ at nickname@company.tld or me@mydomain.tld is useless if I'm hit by a bus, and would require lawyers/leo/courts to convince me to reveal a passphrase stored only in my head if they wanted it. (Or, you know, for the NSA to rootkit any of my devices I type my personal passphrase into…))

lhl 13y ago

Like everyone else (with any common marketing sense), it seems like something like "security" or "privacy" would be much more positive connotations than "dark." A quick search shows SecureMail and PrivateMail are commercially used, but LockedMail and SignedMail aren't. I don't think it'd be too late to (eventually?) do a rebrand/cobrand for the product, especially if someone comes up w/ something particularly good. I think something that even a slight bit of spitballing would turn up something much better. Some thoughts on naming: * If the first word ends in e like securemail/privatemail you actually get email in the word * something that could be shortened like email, but will connote secure sending - "send me that via pmail/smail" * something that has familiar connotations of privacy/sealed delivery (registered mail?) or something might work as well

redblacktree 13y ago

I submit, "Envelope." It's a good analogy, since now we're essentially sending all of our email on postcards.

slig 13y ago
But Envelopes leak metadata as well.
- bediger4000 13y ago
  The NSA gets "mail covers" on every piece of US Postal Service mail: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/04/us/monitoring-of-snail-mail.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/04/us/monitoring-of-snail-mai... the Mail Isolation Control and Tracking program, in which Postal Service computers photograph the exterior of every piece of paper mail that is processed in the United States
  - ape4 13y ago
    Wow, that's a new one to me. We really have to defund the NSA.
MiguelHudnandez 13y ago
An envelope is a good analogy for the 2.0 method described in the article. Contents are more secure but metadata is not.
peatmoss 13y ago
I'd posit that the French already have our backs. A few years ago, the official body that governs standardized French attempted to wean French-speaking people from the borrowed English terminology. Et voila! "Courriel," a portmanteau of courrier and electronique was pilfered from the Quebecois for the benefit of francophones everywhere. Sadly however, if Google Translate is any indicator, then "courriel" never made the leap from official to commonplace. Now, the electronic part is a given. But what about the courier part? Here's what Wikipedia says: > Couriers are distinguished from ordinary mail services by features such as speed, security, tracking, signature, specialization and individualization of express services, and swift delivery times, which are optional for most everyday mail services. As a premium service, couriers are usually more expensive than standard mail services, and their use is typically restricted to packages where one or more of these features are considered important enough to warrant the cost. Speed, security, individualization, premium? Those all sound like adjectives that I like! Let's do the L'Académie française a solid. Let's adopt Courriel and apply the label only to our fast, secure, individualized, premium electronic communiques.

r0muald 13y ago

At least they didn't make the mistake of calling it "Secure Mail".