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> Correct me if I'm mistaken Some corrections about the US: - Abortion is legal as is birth control. - A very few crazy people blame gay people for earthquak

by altoz 13y ago

> Correct me if I'm mistaken Some corrections about the US: - Abortion is legal as is birth control. - A very few crazy people blame gay people for earthquakes but I'm sure such people exist everywhere. - Very few people carry assault rifles around in public. - Very few people believe the world is 6000 years old. Again, I'm sure such people exist everywhere. Please, stop caricaturing.

jonmrodriguez 13y ago
" Since 1982, between 40% and 50% of adults in the United States say they hold the creationist view that 'God created humans in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years'. " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Earth_creationism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Earth_creationism
- code4life 13y ago
  Just because they believe the creation event was done in the last 10,000 years doesn't mean they believe the earth is 10,000 years old. God created Adam and Eve as adults. They had an age (non zero). The stars had light immediately shining across the sky. So this implies age (via time). etc.
  - halostatue 13y ago
    That’s essentially the day-age view, and surprisingly few creationists subscribe to that (and no young earth creationists do so). It doesn’t change that even if you believe in day-age creationism, you’re accepting something that has no more basis in reality than the various creation tales in the Vedas do.
  - bunderbunder 13y ago
    What a fascinating word game.
- eco 13y ago
  A bit nitpicking but that's a different statement than saying the earth is 6,000 years old. "Humans in their present form" is a very vague statement. You could take it to mean god imparted the knowledge of agriculture upon humans which had a hugely transformative effect on mankind which made modern humans what they are today. Or you could say god imparted the biblical knowledge of right and wrong and that allowed humans to become what they are today. Hell, it could even be interpreted as true by evolution believing religious people with a poor understanding of the timescales evolution operates over. I'm very skeptical of the idea that around half of the people around me think the existence of the earth or humans are less than 10,000 years old and I live in an extremely religious state (Utah). Mormons aren't known for being creationists though so perhaps my personal experience is unusual.
  - rallison 13y ago
    Indeed. Here is the actual poll from Gallup with historical data: http://www.gallup.com/poll/155003/hold-creationist-view-human-origins.aspx http://www.gallup.com/poll/155003/hold-creationist-view-huma... And, more importantly, the linked poll questions and methodology: http://www.gallup.com/file/poll/155006/Creationism_120601.pdf http://www.gallup.com/file/poll/155006/Creationism_120601.pd... So, yes, while there will be a fair bit of overlap between those who answered "created in their present from in the last 10,000 years" and those who believe the earth is less than 6,000 years old, the questions are not equivalent.
- bhauer 13y ago
  I don't know a thing about religion or theology, so take this with a huge grain of salt. But I still don't really buy the accuracy of these numbers for the matter at hand here. I suspect that when asked by a pollster, someone who answers affirmative to this question is doing so because their religion has told them to believe that. The pollster probably doesn't ask a follow-up question of the form, "C'mon, really?" I suspect the answer would often be, "Yeah, not really. But the priest/minister/religion-dude/whatever says it a whole bunch, plus it's in that book we are forced to read over and over." People like to have their pet beliefs that they know to be factually incorrect. I like to believe my taste in music is superior to just about everyone else's. But it's not. Apologies for my sacrilege here if you are religious.
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    > The pollster probably doesn't ask a follow-up question of the form, "C'mon, really?" I suspect the answer would often be, "Yeah, not really. But the priest/minister/religion-dude/whatever says it a whole bunch, plus it's in that book we are forced to read over and over." Yes, if the pollster started bullying people who answered one way, that would probably warp the results... those polls are performed by polling organizations that are well regarded because they don't try to warp their polling results like that. The mere fact that so many Americans would answer that way, even if they didn't honestly believe it 6 days out of the week, is 1) notable, 2) disturbing.
  - LokiSnake 13y ago
    The numbers probably aren't accurate for big coastal cities, but when you take all of the States into account, it isn't inconceivable.
jlgreco 13y ago
> - Abortion is legal as is birth control. s/banning/attempting to ban/ There, fixed it. Do you actually doubt that happens? See Texas in recent national news with abortion. Pushback on Roe vs Wade is unceasing, they have nothing to lose (except their time and money, and they have plenty of both) by hammering away at it, no matter how little ground they gain, so that is exactly what they do. And if you don't think that young earth creationism is a popular belief in America, then you have obviously been exposed to a very small sliver of American society.
- refurb 13y ago
  Yet most of Europe has far stricter abortion laws than the US. Weird, huh?
  - djur 13y ago
    Stricter laws but much better access. If you can get a government-subsidized first-trimester abortion at a nearby clinic, it makes the availability of late-term abortions much less politically contentious. That's not a compromise that's really available in the US, mostly because it would require universal health care first.
    - bhauer 13y ago
      I don't have a strong opinion on abortion. But two replies to refurb's comment and both ignore the matter at hand in order to change the conversation in a new direction. The matter at hand here is whether or not it would be considered breaking the law to abort a fetus, not how that process is financed or whether the population understands that intercourse can lead to pregnancy. And in that matter—legality of abortion—refurb was pointed out that the US is not necessarily less "free" than elsewhere. I think the point still stands.
  - bashinator 13y ago
    Most of Europe also has far more comprehensive sex education and available of birth control than the US, and subsequently far less demand for abortions.
ThomPete 13y ago
The man gives a perfectly good reason why the it might not be considered right in the US and this is your answer? Perhaps you don't know as much about your country as you think you do.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
- Very few people believe the world is 6000 years old. Again, I'm sure such people exist everywhere. It's not as few as you think, and here, they are given lots of power to influence public policy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Broun https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Broun https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_McLeroy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_McLeroy
hobs 13y ago
Also, abortion is continually made more difficult to get by many states, going as far as regulating it out of the state. One state has one clinic in its entirety, and they are doing everything they can politically to get them out. Abstinence based education is another notch in the belt of "its legal, but we are going to do our damndest to ruin it" and you can see skyrocketing aids infections in countries where the united states only provided funding if they taught abstinence.

by altoz 13y ago

jonmrodriguez 13y ago

" Since 1982, between 40% and 50% of adults in the United States say they hold the creationist view that 'God created humans in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years'. " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Earth_creationism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Earth_creationism

code4life 13y ago
Just because they believe the creation event was done in the last 10,000 years doesn't mean they believe the earth is 10,000 years old. God created Adam and Eve as adults. They had an age (non zero). The stars had light immediately shining across the sky. So this implies age (via time). etc.
- halostatue 13y ago
  That’s essentially the day-age view, and surprisingly few creationists subscribe to that (and no young earth creationists do so). It doesn’t change that even if you believe in day-age creationism, you’re accepting something that has no more basis in reality than the various creation tales in the Vedas do.
- bunderbunder 13y ago
  What a fascinating word game.
eco 13y ago
A bit nitpicking but that's a different statement than saying the earth is 6,000 years old. "Humans in their present form" is a very vague statement. You could take it to mean god imparted the knowledge of agriculture upon humans which had a hugely transformative effect on mankind which made modern humans what they are today. Or you could say god imparted the biblical knowledge of right and wrong and that allowed humans to become what they are today. Hell, it could even be interpreted as true by evolution believing religious people with a poor understanding of the timescales evolution operates over. I'm very skeptical of the idea that around half of the people around me think the existence of the earth or humans are less than 10,000 years old and I live in an extremely religious state (Utah). Mormons aren't known for being creationists though so perhaps my personal experience is unusual.
- rallison 13y ago
  Indeed. Here is the actual poll from Gallup with historical data: http://www.gallup.com/poll/155003/hold-creationist-view-human-origins.aspx http://www.gallup.com/poll/155003/hold-creationist-view-huma... And, more importantly, the linked poll questions and methodology: http://www.gallup.com/file/poll/155006/Creationism_120601.pdf http://www.gallup.com/file/poll/155006/Creationism_120601.pd... So, yes, while there will be a fair bit of overlap between those who answered "created in their present from in the last 10,000 years" and those who believe the earth is less than 6,000 years old, the questions are not equivalent.
bhauer 13y ago
I don't know a thing about religion or theology, so take this with a huge grain of salt. But I still don't really buy the accuracy of these numbers for the matter at hand here. I suspect that when asked by a pollster, someone who answers affirmative to this question is doing so because their religion has told them to believe that. The pollster probably doesn't ask a follow-up question of the form, "C'mon, really?" I suspect the answer would often be, "Yeah, not really. But the priest/minister/religion-dude/whatever says it a whole bunch, plus it's in that book we are forced to read over and over." People like to have their pet beliefs that they know to be factually incorrect. I like to believe my taste in music is superior to just about everyone else's. But it's not. Apologies for my sacrilege here if you are religious.
- jlgreco 13y ago
  > The pollster probably doesn't ask a follow-up question of the form, "C'mon, really?" I suspect the answer would often be, "Yeah, not really. But the priest/minister/religion-dude/whatever says it a whole bunch, plus it's in that book we are forced to read over and over." Yes, if the pollster started bullying people who answered one way, that would probably warp the results... those polls are performed by polling organizations that are well regarded because they don't try to warp their polling results like that. The mere fact that so many Americans would answer that way, even if they didn't honestly believe it 6 days out of the week, is 1) notable, 2) disturbing.
- LokiSnake 13y ago
  The numbers probably aren't accurate for big coastal cities, but when you take all of the States into account, it isn't inconceivable.

jlgreco 13y ago

> - Abortion is legal as is birth control. s/banning/attempting to ban/ There, fixed it. Do you actually doubt that happens? See Texas in recent national news with abortion. Pushback on Roe vs Wade is unceasing, they have nothing to lose (except their time and money, and they have plenty of both) by hammering away at it, no matter how little ground they gain, so that is exactly what they do. And if you don't think that young earth creationism is a popular belief in America, then you have obviously been exposed to a very small sliver of American society.

refurb 13y ago
Yet most of Europe has far stricter abortion laws than the US. Weird, huh?
- djur 13y ago
  Stricter laws but much better access. If you can get a government-subsidized first-trimester abortion at a nearby clinic, it makes the availability of late-term abortions much less politically contentious. That's not a compromise that's really available in the US, mostly because it would require universal health care first.
  - bhauer 13y ago
    I don't have a strong opinion on abortion. But two replies to refurb's comment and both ignore the matter at hand in order to change the conversation in a new direction. The matter at hand here is whether or not it would be considered breaking the law to abort a fetus, not how that process is financed or whether the population understands that intercourse can lead to pregnancy. And in that matter—legality of abortion—refurb was pointed out that the US is not necessarily less "free" than elsewhere. I think the point still stands.
- bashinator 13y ago
  Most of Europe also has far more comprehensive sex education and available of birth control than the US, and subsequently far less demand for abortions.

ThomPete 13y ago

The man gives a perfectly good reason why the it might not be considered right in the US and this is your answer? Perhaps you don't know as much about your country as you think you do.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

fnordfnordfnord 13y ago

- Very few people believe the world is 6000 years old. Again, I'm sure such people exist everywhere. It's not as few as you think, and here, they are given lots of power to influence public policy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Broun https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Broun https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_McLeroy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_McLeroy

hobs 13y ago

Also, abortion is continually made more difficult to get by many states, going as far as regulating it out of the state. One state has one clinic in its entirety, and they are doing everything they can politically to get them out. Abstinence based education is another notch in the belt of "its legal, but we are going to do our damndest to ruin it" and you can see skyrocketing aids infections in countries where the united states only provided funding if they taught abstinence.