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Stopped reading after > Preface: As a white, heterosexual, cis, male, I’m granted, from birth, an extraordinary amount of privilege I wasn't actually aware pe

by tazjin 13y ago

Stopped reading after > Preface: As a white, heterosexual, cis, male, I’m granted, from birth, an extraordinary amount of privilege I wasn't actually aware people outside of the Tumblrverse said things like that. (Over on Reddit there is /r/TumblrInAction for things like this)

angersock 13y ago
Despite the rather silly checking of privilege at the beginning of the article, it's kind of sweet read (like, "dawwww :3").
jskopek 13y ago
Do you disagree with the author? Depending on where you live, his point is very valid. As a resident of Canada, I feel that I live in a fairly progressive, culturally diverse society. Yet even here, I have heard friends of different ethnicities complain about racial issues. Not all racial or gender divisions are obvious; exclusion or denial of privilege is harder to spot.
- sp332 13y ago
  There's a big difference in perspective between saying "the majority is privileged" and saying "the minority is disadvantaged". When the majority is heterosexual, white, and "cis-gendered", isn't that the baseline instead of privileged?
  - shinratdr 13y ago
    That depends entirely on the direction you're observing from.
    - sp332 13y ago
      Let's say things are set up to pander to the majority, even when it puts a minority at a disadvantage. What is the argument for making things harder for the majority, to equalize things for the minority? On average, society would come out worse, so you'd have to argue that equality itself is more valuable than any advantage for the majority.
      - shinratdr 13y ago
        > On average, society would come out worse That's a massive leap in logic. Society isn't a simple one in, one out metric.
      - phillmv 13y ago
        Well, by your own metaphor on _average_ society would come out the same, by definition. (I suspect you meant median). As a result, it sounds like you're saying "screw you, I got mine". We can flip the question around: why does this majority deserve better opportunities? There aren't very good answers to that question. The main thing I'd point out is that unlike your metaphor society is not a zero-sum game.
        sp332 13y ago
        Well, by your own metaphor on _average_ society would come out the same, by definition. No, if you make things worse for 90% of the population, and make it better for 10% of the population, the total is worse and therefore the average (mean) is worse. Edit: an example. Let's say the first 9 people rate society at 10 points, and the last one rates it a 4. Total 94, mean 9.4, median 10. Now change things around so everyone is equal and ranks things a 9. Total 90, mean 9.0, median 9. Even though the majority is almost as happy as before, and the minority is much happier, most measures come out worse.
        phillmv 13y ago
        Why is the total going down in the after picture? Because our points only belong to the set of natural numbers ;)? We're assuming in this totally contrived example that points are a measure of total resources + opportunity in our closed system, since we're implying a redistribution of a fixed pool of resources^1. So, the total in the "after" picture would still be 94 and thus the mean would remain at 9.4 and the median would be 9.4 - (and down from 10). I'm not a fan of arguing from averages - realistically, the picture is more like 1 - 1000pts, 2 - 100pts, 3-50pts, 4-30pts, 5, 6-7 - 20pts, 8-10 10pts ~ 1270 total, avg 127, median 20. But these are all contrived examples (in the above I'm more leaning on income distribution, which I've reproduced from memory and may be skewed). If we equalize the above, the median would go up. The argument for redistribution can be made on an economic/statistical basis - but the argument for equality, I think, is ultimately moral. It's not about fairness per se, but about justice. ^1 Not quite my stance but for the sake of argument.
  - twelvechairs 13y ago
    the majority isnt all those things and male.
    - sp332 13y ago
      White women are still privileged over other women (in the US and Canada anyway). You don't have to be male to be privileged.
  - king_jester 13y ago
    Having your status considered the baseline is a part of privilege. Folks who fall outside of that baseline face real negative consequences for it. Both "the majority is privileged" and "the minority is disadvantaged" are true at the same time.
    - sp332 13y ago
      OK so the majority has some privilege just from being the majority. But that isn't a moral failing, something they should be ashamed of, something they shouldn't take full advantage of, or something they can change. So it doesn't seem to have anything in common with, say, racism or sexism.
      - deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
- Stealth- 13y ago
  As another resident of Canada, I have to completely disagree with you. I have to pay $20,000 for my schooling. My first nations friends pay nothing, it's covered by tax payers. This includes numerous other benefits that I do not get. In Canada, unfortunately it can often seem like the minority have more privileges. That's not equality, to me.
  - shinratdr 13y ago
    And all they had to do to get that was to be ripped from their homes and placed into residential schools, which existed into the 60s. What a sweet deal! This smacks of tremendous ignorance of the history of First Nations people and what white Canadians have done to them. It's possibly the most concrete demonstration of white privilege I've ever seen. "Well gee, I'm just a simple guy, but I don't think trying to balance out the horrible things that people of my race did to people of another race well into the 1900s that irreversibly affected their communities ability to survive is all that fair if I don't get those things too!" It's all well and good to want a level playing field, but when you've spend the last century digging everyone else into gigantic holes, it kind of rings a little hollow.
    - Stealth- 13y ago
      Growing up in a poorer neighbourhood, the native friends I had were able to play football, have school lunches, go on fieldtrips, and go to university when I could not because they were paid for with tax payers' dollars. My grandparents were not even in this country at the time, it was not my ancestors nor me that hurt anyone. So I should have less because of what someone with the same skin colour as me did decades ago? Doesn't that seem a little, I don't know, discriminatory?
      - shinratdr 13y ago
        > the native friends I had were able to play football, have school lunches, go on fieldtrips, and go to university when I could not because they were paid for with tax payers' dollars. I don't know where you live but in Toronto with the exception of university tuition, all those things are provided for children that can't afford them regardless of their background. The concept of not letting a child go on a field trip or go hungry at lunch because they couldn't afford it is just insane to my ears. > My grandparents were not even in this country at the time, it was not my ancestors nor me that hurt anyone. Good thing this has little or nothing to do with punishing the descendants of those who may or may not have perpetrated injustice. It's about providing a leg-up to those that have been held down for decades. You had no such disadvantages so you don't receive the leg up. > Doesn't that seem a little, I don't know, discriminatory? Providing benefits to anyone while excluding anyone else is technically discrimination. That's doesn't make it bad. Not all things are equal. It's discrimination that students pay less than you to take the subway. Also discrimination, also not a bad thing.
- strathmeyer 13y ago
  As a heterosexual white male it was very interesting to learn that all the thing I have been denied because of my race and gender should have been a privilege and that I have never actually been an outsider and have actually been the cause of everyone's loneliness instead of legitimately feeling it myself.
  - xacaxulu 13y ago
    What a sad life we've been leading!! CAN'T....GO.....ON.....
- volaski 13y ago
  "I'm a white guy, I am so more privileged than most black guys" "I'm a guy, I am so more privileged than most girls" "I'm a white guy, I am so more privileged than most asian guys" "I'm a straight guy, I am so more privileged than most gay guys" How do these make you feel? Also how about someone went up to an old man and said, "You are an old man in your sixties, and I'm a college kid in my twenties. You will die much earlier than me. That's pretty much close to fact. Do you disagree?"
  - jrs99 13y ago
    I think it depends on how rich the target person is.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- jrs99 13y ago
  Do you know what it feels like to be a 5'1" white male or a 7'2" obese white male or a 6'5" white female? Race problems do exist, but because you're white doesn't mean you don't have problems with society.
  - nollidge 13y ago
    Nope, it doesn't, but does mean you don't have some particularly common ones!
- mkr-hn 13y ago
  It has a lot more to do with financial status and social standing than any other factor. A white guy growing up and living in a poor part of the southeast has a very different experience from a white guy who grew up in a mansion. Race and gender are poor guides to figuring out how much a person struggles.
  - FD3SA 13y ago
    Precisely. It never ceases to amaze me how splintered the socioeconomic classes become via interest groups. Men vs. women, Black vs White vs Hispanic, Christian vs Muslim vs Jew vs atheist, Democrat vs Republican, gay vs straight vs trans, etc etc. Socioeconomic status is the only real differentiator, and these factions only serve to divide the people whose interests are in reality, quite aligned. Unsurprisingly, this tends to greatly assist those at the top of the socioeconomic ladder in maintaining political deadlock on issues which greatly assist the majority at the expense of the tiny minority. Issues such as the social safety net, healthcare, education, infrastructure, and democratic process. A cursory review of history shows that this is not a novel strategy.
- altero 13y ago
  I am European, but to me that sounds racist "I am white and heterosexual, I have the privilege". Like other people are worth less because they do not have privilege? I understand there are bonus points for this in America. But it also means that rest of the article is very likely going to be a political rant
nooron 13y ago
Since I just moved to the Bay and spend a lot of time alone, the article really resonated with me. I'm all of these things except heterosexual. As as adult, I'm also not readily identifiable as homosexual. But as a kid my perceived lack of masculinity (among many other things) definitely made me a target. I can confirm that being alone now, by my choice, is much more pleasant and gratifying than being alone, by the choice of others. He's on to something.
icebraining 13y ago
Stopped reading your post after "Stopped reading".
- aristomc 13y ago
  lol
  - aristomc 13y ago
    haha 4 downvotes for finding a comment humorous, I think the first paragraph of the article is quite powerful and a good contextual way of starting things off. Worth a read.
    - nadiaks 13y ago
      I can see contextually how you didn't mean any harm but I guess it was misinterpreted. No need to downvote 4 times for an "lol". It was the second paragraph that was equally as powerful for me. Cheers
- throwmeaway2525 13y ago
  Stopped not laughing when I read your comment.
mjgoins 13y ago
When you learn new things you stop reading?
electronous 13y ago
You're making HN awesome. Keep up the good work!
jakecarpenter 13y ago
Your loss, it is a good read. Tumblr can't possibly be the only place you're exposed to uncomfortable opinions on the interwebs, can it?
cobrausn 13y ago
As a former Catholic, when I read lines like that I can't help but be struck with the observation that this seems to be a feminist/progressive version of confessing your sins in order to be absolved of them.
- mindslight 13y ago
  It's more of an original sin you can never be absolved of and are supposed to continually prostrate yourself for. Of course there are people in situations for which the advice in this article is a non-starter. But does that preface actually specifically address them, or is it just a cargo-cult disclaimer to keep the responses from being derailed by feel-good plighties? And how should one feel if they are so "privileged" yet still cannot bring themselves to follow this advice?
  - roflc0ptic 13y ago
    Yeah, exactly. I'm deeply sympathetic towards lefty activists and activism, but I just cannot get over how much privilege "politics" [sic] sounds like original sin. 1. Being racist is bad 2. All white people are racist (by virtue of being born into a racist culture) Ergo... all white people are bad. And I've seen several facebook posts by people of color that say things like "I'M DONE WITH WHITE PEOPLE." And I'm even somewhat sympathetic to that: All the evidence I've seen indicates I get treated better for being a tolerably handsome white dude. That must be kind of infuriating. But at the end of the day, it's this culture that is often hostile to white dudes on principal, and just... okay? I guess I won't talk to you at parties if you don't want me to?
    - phillmv 13y ago
      >But at the end of the day, it's this culture that is often hostile to white dudes on principal, and just... okay? So, the premise that this begins with starts not with the notion that you're a bad person who doesn't deserve to live but more from the notion, popular in lefty circles, that your opinion about the plight of less privileged people doesn't matter precisely because you have no experience in the subject matter. There is a legitimate criticism that people have swung too far into these kinds of identity politics, and that they're ultimately more divisive than not. Ultimately, they prevent the formation of a communal polity that can work together on shared incentives rather than splintering into a fractal set of identities. It gets trickier because a lot of white dudes parse this as a personal attack and thus get (appropriately, from their perspective) upset. I'm not personally, consciously responsible! What did I do wrong? The key thing to keep in mind is, if you're not a white dude, you've spent most of modern history totally shut out of the conversation. It's extremely infuriating! And having white dudes complaining that they're not being listened to - with all the attending historical baggage that claim carries - only compounds that frustration. Which is why people lash out. We're still in a state of flux; things will settle down one way or another. But I think it's worth keeping in mind the difference between "All white people are racist" and "We're really tired of only listening to the opinions of white people". Usually, people mean the latter and not the former.
steveklabnik 13y ago
It's actually directly relevant; they're acknowledging that when they say "if you're lonely, just get out there and say hello!" is an acceptable option partially because it really is true that at the worst, they'll feel uncomfortable. Someone who does not come from this place in life has a myriad of other things that can add to the downsides in this equation, and when you stack the two up against each other, they start looking differently really quickly. Of course, since you skipped the "please remember the position I come from and critically engage with how that effects the thoughts I have," I shouldn't have expected you to.
- tomp 13y ago
  Could you explain a bit more, why exactly does this advice "just get out there" not apply to anyone who isn't either white, heterosexual, cis or male?
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - VLM 13y ago
    In before the tired allusion to going out for skittles and tea after smoking weed at midnight (in florida) Reality is it applies to everyone and its just a "woe is me" strategy. I "can't" socialize because I'm not pasty white, well there's a load off my back I don't have to be responsible for anymore.
  - phillmv 13y ago
    It's not that it doesn't apply, it's just not as straightforward. As a white, cis, straight male (with a good job, I might add) there are few venues you aren't automatically welcome at and compatible with. Flip any of those variables and "just get out there" is less applicable or harder. It's not like being a white male is a cheat code at life, but you spawn with a fuller inventory and a couple rings of +2 less bulshit.
  - britta 13y ago
    There are many potential examples, but I'll explain an example from my own experience. I'm a woman, and I've enjoyed tagging along with my male friend who is very friendly at conferences and similar events, talking to all kinds of strangers and having good conversations. That looked like a fun skill to have, so I tried doing it on my own - introducing myself to other attendees, asking about their work and projects, etc. And I ran into a bunch of awkward situations where the person responded as if I were flirting with them (inevitably most of the people I talked to were men, since most of the people at those conferences were men). No, I actually just wanted to learn more about your company's business model. I was copying my male friend's style of talking to other men, and I was interpreted differently. I've adjusted my approach now to reduce the chances of misunderstandings like that.
spindritf 13y ago
Oh, good. It's not just me. > Preface: As a white, heterosexual, cis, male, I’m granted, from birth, an extraordinary amount of privilege This is crazy, intellectually debilitating blabber. And just wrong on a blog[1]. We already allowed lawyers and CYA politicians to slap warning labels on everything (despite the fact that it's counter-productive[2]). Are we now going to put disclaimers on private blogs? Or is it like a weird way to brag? "I'm not affected by any common affliction." (You forgot "able-bodied" BTW which is much more important that those other things.) Better yet, "I, being of sound mind and body do hereby publish this blogpost." [1] http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/06/against-disclai.html http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/06/against-disclai.html [2] http://pss.sagepub.com/content/24/9/1842 http://pss.sagepub.com/content/24/9/1842
- md224 13y ago
  > This is crazy, intellectually debilitating blabber. Would you care to elaborate on what's crazy and intellectually debilitating about the sentence you quoted? I know people that would agree completely with that sentence, so I'd be curious to hear your perspective and why you feel it's wrong.
  - thwest 13y ago
    Perhaps the concepts of gender and race are so foreign that it is literally difficult to think about and therefore "debilitating".
- makomk 13y ago
  He also completely failed to mention mental health issues, which was the more glaring omission for me.
xacaxulu 13y ago
Agreed! Way to apologize for your sex, race and orientation in one swell foop and act like it seriously informs someones decisions to go to parties, get out there, whatever. "Should I just go out tonight? Hmm, am I white, straight and male?" Derrrrrrrrrrp
kanja 13y ago
It's no wonder he has such trouble socializing. When you wear self loathing on your sleeve like that, people will respond accordingly. It's wonderful to want to make a better world, but when everything you say, think, or do needs to be excused and caveated you can't help but internalize that.
Tehnix 13y ago
Why? or are you stating that social interactions have nothing to do with race, gender and sexuality? 'Cause then you and I simply do not live in the same world... As much as we all do want racism etc to go away, prejudices are a very real thing. The preface is relevant to his story.
egypturnash 13y ago
There are lots of people who are aware of the concept of privilege but do not make it one of the major subjects of their conversation. Some of them are even white het cis males. There are even people in technology who are not white, het, cis males.

by tazjin 13y ago

angersock 13y ago

Despite the rather silly checking of privilege at the beginning of the article, it's kind of sweet read (like, "dawwww :3").

jskopek 13y ago

Do you disagree with the author? Depending on where you live, his point is very valid. As a resident of Canada, I feel that I live in a fairly progressive, culturally diverse society. Yet even here, I have heard friends of different ethnicities complain about racial issues. Not all racial or gender divisions are obvious; exclusion or denial of privilege is harder to spot.

sp332 13y ago
There's a big difference in perspective between saying "the majority is privileged" and saying "the minority is disadvantaged". When the majority is heterosexual, white, and "cis-gendered", isn't that the baseline instead of privileged?
- shinratdr 13y ago
  That depends entirely on the direction you're observing from.
  - sp332 13y ago
    Let's say things are set up to pander to the majority, even when it puts a minority at a disadvantage. What is the argument for making things harder for the majority, to equalize things for the minority? On average, society would come out worse, so you'd have to argue that equality itself is more valuable than any advantage for the majority.
    - shinratdr 13y ago
      > On average, society would come out worse That's a massive leap in logic. Society isn't a simple one in, one out metric.
    - phillmv 13y ago
      Well, by your own metaphor on _average_ society would come out the same, by definition. (I suspect you meant median). As a result, it sounds like you're saying "screw you, I got mine". We can flip the question around: why does this majority deserve better opportunities? There aren't very good answers to that question. The main thing I'd point out is that unlike your metaphor society is not a zero-sum game.
      - sp332 13y ago
        Well, by your own metaphor on _average_ society would come out the same, by definition. No, if you make things worse for 90% of the population, and make it better for 10% of the population, the total is worse and therefore the average (mean) is worse. Edit: an example. Let's say the first 9 people rate society at 10 points, and the last one rates it a 4. Total 94, mean 9.4, median 10. Now change things around so everyone is equal and ranks things a 9. Total 90, mean 9.0, median 9. Even though the majority is almost as happy as before, and the minority is much happier, most measures come out worse.
        phillmv 13y ago
        Why is the total going down in the after picture? Because our points only belong to the set of natural numbers ;)? We're assuming in this totally contrived example that points are a measure of total resources + opportunity in our closed system, since we're implying a redistribution of a fixed pool of resources^1. So, the total in the "after" picture would still be 94 and thus the mean would remain at 9.4 and the median would be 9.4 - (and down from 10). I'm not a fan of arguing from averages - realistically, the picture is more like 1 - 1000pts, 2 - 100pts, 3-50pts, 4-30pts, 5, 6-7 - 20pts, 8-10 10pts ~ 1270 total, avg 127, median 20. But these are all contrived examples (in the above I'm more leaning on income distribution, which I've reproduced from memory and may be skewed). If we equalize the above, the median would go up. The argument for redistribution can be made on an economic/statistical basis - but the argument for equality, I think, is ultimately moral. It's not about fairness per se, but about justice. ^1 Not quite my stance but for the sake of argument.
- twelvechairs 13y ago
  the majority isnt all those things and male.
  - sp332 13y ago
    White women are still privileged over other women (in the US and Canada anyway). You don't have to be male to be privileged.
- king_jester 13y ago
  Having your status considered the baseline is a part of privilege. Folks who fall outside of that baseline face real negative consequences for it. Both "the majority is privileged" and "the minority is disadvantaged" are true at the same time.
  - sp332 13y ago
    OK so the majority has some privilege just from being the majority. But that isn't a moral failing, something they should be ashamed of, something they shouldn't take full advantage of, or something they can change. So it doesn't seem to have anything in common with, say, racism or sexism.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
Stealth- 13y ago
As another resident of Canada, I have to completely disagree with you. I have to pay $20,000 for my schooling. My first nations friends pay nothing, it's covered by tax payers. This includes numerous other benefits that I do not get. In Canada, unfortunately it can often seem like the minority have more privileges. That's not equality, to me.
- shinratdr 13y ago
  And all they had to do to get that was to be ripped from their homes and placed into residential schools, which existed into the 60s. What a sweet deal! This smacks of tremendous ignorance of the history of First Nations people and what white Canadians have done to them. It's possibly the most concrete demonstration of white privilege I've ever seen. "Well gee, I'm just a simple guy, but I don't think trying to balance out the horrible things that people of my race did to people of another race well into the 1900s that irreversibly affected their communities ability to survive is all that fair if I don't get those things too!" It's all well and good to want a level playing field, but when you've spend the last century digging everyone else into gigantic holes, it kind of rings a little hollow.
  - Stealth- 13y ago
    Growing up in a poorer neighbourhood, the native friends I had were able to play football, have school lunches, go on fieldtrips, and go to university when I could not because they were paid for with tax payers' dollars. My grandparents were not even in this country at the time, it was not my ancestors nor me that hurt anyone. So I should have less because of what someone with the same skin colour as me did decades ago? Doesn't that seem a little, I don't know, discriminatory?
    - shinratdr 13y ago
      > the native friends I had were able to play football, have school lunches, go on fieldtrips, and go to university when I could not because they were paid for with tax payers' dollars. I don't know where you live but in Toronto with the exception of university tuition, all those things are provided for children that can't afford them regardless of their background. The concept of not letting a child go on a field trip or go hungry at lunch because they couldn't afford it is just insane to my ears. > My grandparents were not even in this country at the time, it was not my ancestors nor me that hurt anyone. Good thing this has little or nothing to do with punishing the descendants of those who may or may not have perpetrated injustice. It's about providing a leg-up to those that have been held down for decades. You had no such disadvantages so you don't receive the leg up. > Doesn't that seem a little, I don't know, discriminatory? Providing benefits to anyone while excluding anyone else is technically discrimination. That's doesn't make it bad. Not all things are equal. It's discrimination that students pay less than you to take the subway. Also discrimination, also not a bad thing.
strathmeyer 13y ago
As a heterosexual white male it was very interesting to learn that all the thing I have been denied because of my race and gender should have been a privilege and that I have never actually been an outsider and have actually been the cause of everyone's loneliness instead of legitimately feeling it myself.
- xacaxulu 13y ago
  What a sad life we've been leading!! CAN'T....GO.....ON.....
volaski 13y ago
"I'm a white guy, I am so more privileged than most black guys" "I'm a guy, I am so more privileged than most girls" "I'm a white guy, I am so more privileged than most asian guys" "I'm a straight guy, I am so more privileged than most gay guys" How do these make you feel? Also how about someone went up to an old man and said, "You are an old man in your sixties, and I'm a college kid in my twenties. You will die much earlier than me. That's pretty much close to fact. Do you disagree?"
- jrs99 13y ago
  I think it depends on how rich the target person is.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
jrs99 13y ago
Do you know what it feels like to be a 5'1" white male or a 7'2" obese white male or a 6'5" white female? Race problems do exist, but because you're white doesn't mean you don't have problems with society.
- nollidge 13y ago
  Nope, it doesn't, but does mean you don't have some particularly common ones!
mkr-hn 13y ago
It has a lot more to do with financial status and social standing than any other factor. A white guy growing up and living in a poor part of the southeast has a very different experience from a white guy who grew up in a mansion. Race and gender are poor guides to figuring out how much a person struggles.
- FD3SA 13y ago
  Precisely. It never ceases to amaze me how splintered the socioeconomic classes become via interest groups. Men vs. women, Black vs White vs Hispanic, Christian vs Muslim vs Jew vs atheist, Democrat vs Republican, gay vs straight vs trans, etc etc. Socioeconomic status is the only real differentiator, and these factions only serve to divide the people whose interests are in reality, quite aligned. Unsurprisingly, this tends to greatly assist those at the top of the socioeconomic ladder in maintaining political deadlock on issues which greatly assist the majority at the expense of the tiny minority. Issues such as the social safety net, healthcare, education, infrastructure, and democratic process. A cursory review of history shows that this is not a novel strategy.
altero 13y ago
I am European, but to me that sounds racist "I am white and heterosexual, I have the privilege". Like other people are worth less because they do not have privilege? I understand there are bonus points for this in America. But it also means that rest of the article is very likely going to be a political rant

nooron 13y ago

Since I just moved to the Bay and spend a lot of time alone, the article really resonated with me. I'm all of these things except heterosexual. As as adult, I'm also not readily identifiable as homosexual. But as a kid my perceived lack of masculinity (among many other things) definitely made me a target. I can confirm that being alone now, by my choice, is much more pleasant and gratifying than being alone, by the choice of others. He's on to something.

icebraining 13y ago

Stopped reading your post after "Stopped reading".

aristomc 13y ago
lol
- aristomc 13y ago
  haha 4 downvotes for finding a comment humorous, I think the first paragraph of the article is quite powerful and a good contextual way of starting things off. Worth a read.
  - nadiaks 13y ago
    I can see contextually how you didn't mean any harm but I guess it was misinterpreted. No need to downvote 4 times for an "lol". It was the second paragraph that was equally as powerful for me. Cheers
throwmeaway2525 13y ago
Stopped not laughing when I read your comment.

mjgoins 13y ago

When you learn new things you stop reading?

electronous 13y ago

You're making HN awesome. Keep up the good work!

jakecarpenter 13y ago

Your loss, it is a good read. Tumblr can't possibly be the only place you're exposed to uncomfortable opinions on the interwebs, can it?

cobrausn 13y ago

As a former Catholic, when I read lines like that I can't help but be struck with the observation that this seems to be a feminist/progressive version of confessing your sins in order to be absolved of them.

mindslight 13y ago
It's more of an original sin you can never be absolved of and are supposed to continually prostrate yourself for. Of course there are people in situations for which the advice in this article is a non-starter. But does that preface actually specifically address them, or is it just a cargo-cult disclaimer to keep the responses from being derailed by feel-good plighties? And how should one feel if they are so "privileged" yet still cannot bring themselves to follow this advice?
- roflc0ptic 13y ago
  Yeah, exactly. I'm deeply sympathetic towards lefty activists and activism, but I just cannot get over how much privilege "politics" [sic] sounds like original sin. 1. Being racist is bad 2. All white people are racist (by virtue of being born into a racist culture) Ergo... all white people are bad. And I've seen several facebook posts by people of color that say things like "I'M DONE WITH WHITE PEOPLE." And I'm even somewhat sympathetic to that: All the evidence I've seen indicates I get treated better for being a tolerably handsome white dude. That must be kind of infuriating. But at the end of the day, it's this culture that is often hostile to white dudes on principal, and just... okay? I guess I won't talk to you at parties if you don't want me to?
  - phillmv 13y ago
    >But at the end of the day, it's this culture that is often hostile to white dudes on principal, and just... okay? So, the premise that this begins with starts not with the notion that you're a bad person who doesn't deserve to live but more from the notion, popular in lefty circles, that your opinion about the plight of less privileged people doesn't matter precisely because you have no experience in the subject matter. There is a legitimate criticism that people have swung too far into these kinds of identity politics, and that they're ultimately more divisive than not. Ultimately, they prevent the formation of a communal polity that can work together on shared incentives rather than splintering into a fractal set of identities. It gets trickier because a lot of white dudes parse this as a personal attack and thus get (appropriately, from their perspective) upset. I'm not personally, consciously responsible! What did I do wrong? The key thing to keep in mind is, if you're not a white dude, you've spent most of modern history totally shut out of the conversation. It's extremely infuriating! And having white dudes complaining that they're not being listened to - with all the attending historical baggage that claim carries - only compounds that frustration. Which is why people lash out. We're still in a state of flux; things will settle down one way or another. But I think it's worth keeping in mind the difference between "All white people are racist" and "We're really tired of only listening to the opinions of white people". Usually, people mean the latter and not the former.

steveklabnik 13y ago

It's actually directly relevant; they're acknowledging that when they say "if you're lonely, just get out there and say hello!" is an acceptable option partially because it really is true that at the worst, they'll feel uncomfortable. Someone who does not come from this place in life has a myriad of other things that can add to the downsides in this equation, and when you stack the two up against each other, they start looking differently really quickly. Of course, since you skipped the "please remember the position I come from and critically engage with how that effects the thoughts I have," I shouldn't have expected you to.

tomp 13y ago
Could you explain a bit more, why exactly does this advice "just get out there" not apply to anyone who isn't either white, heterosexual, cis or male?
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- VLM 13y ago
  In before the tired allusion to going out for skittles and tea after smoking weed at midnight (in florida) Reality is it applies to everyone and its just a "woe is me" strategy. I "can't" socialize because I'm not pasty white, well there's a load off my back I don't have to be responsible for anymore.
- phillmv 13y ago
  It's not that it doesn't apply, it's just not as straightforward. As a white, cis, straight male (with a good job, I might add) there are few venues you aren't automatically welcome at and compatible with. Flip any of those variables and "just get out there" is less applicable or harder. It's not like being a white male is a cheat code at life, but you spawn with a fuller inventory and a couple rings of +2 less bulshit.
- britta 13y ago
  There are many potential examples, but I'll explain an example from my own experience. I'm a woman, and I've enjoyed tagging along with my male friend who is very friendly at conferences and similar events, talking to all kinds of strangers and having good conversations. That looked like a fun skill to have, so I tried doing it on my own - introducing myself to other attendees, asking about their work and projects, etc. And I ran into a bunch of awkward situations where the person responded as if I were flirting with them (inevitably most of the people I talked to were men, since most of the people at those conferences were men). No, I actually just wanted to learn more about your company's business model. I was copying my male friend's style of talking to other men, and I was interpreted differently. I've adjusted my approach now to reduce the chances of misunderstandings like that.

spindritf 13y ago

Oh, good. It's not just me. > Preface: As a white, heterosexual, cis, male, I’m granted, from birth, an extraordinary amount of privilege This is crazy, intellectually debilitating blabber. And just wrong on a blog[1]. We already allowed lawyers and CYA politicians to slap warning labels on everything (despite the fact that it's counter-productive[2]). Are we now going to put disclaimers on private blogs? Or is it like a weird way to brag? "I'm not affected by any common affliction." (You forgot "able-bodied" BTW which is much more important that those other things.) Better yet, "I, being of sound mind and body do hereby publish this blogpost." [1] http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/06/against-disclai.html http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/06/against-disclai.html [2] http://pss.sagepub.com/content/24/9/1842 http://pss.sagepub.com/content/24/9/1842

md224 13y ago
> This is crazy, intellectually debilitating blabber. Would you care to elaborate on what's crazy and intellectually debilitating about the sentence you quoted? I know people that would agree completely with that sentence, so I'd be curious to hear your perspective and why you feel it's wrong.
- thwest 13y ago
  Perhaps the concepts of gender and race are so foreign that it is literally difficult to think about and therefore "debilitating".
makomk 13y ago
He also completely failed to mention mental health issues, which was the more glaring omission for me.

xacaxulu 13y ago

Agreed! Way to apologize for your sex, race and orientation in one swell foop and act like it seriously informs someones decisions to go to parties, get out there, whatever. "Should I just go out tonight? Hmm, am I white, straight and male?" Derrrrrrrrrrp

kanja 13y ago

It's no wonder he has such trouble socializing. When you wear self loathing on your sleeve like that, people will respond accordingly. It's wonderful to want to make a better world, but when everything you say, think, or do needs to be excused and caveated you can't help but internalize that.

Tehnix 13y ago

Why? or are you stating that social interactions have nothing to do with race, gender and sexuality? 'Cause then you and I simply do not live in the same world... As much as we all do want racism etc to go away, prejudices are a very real thing. The preface is relevant to his story.

egypturnash 13y ago

There are lots of people who are aware of the concept of privilege but do not make it one of the major subjects of their conversation. Some of them are even white het cis males. There are even people in technology who are not white, het, cis males.