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> The Meetups are of high quality (in general) because there are so many people, but most of the people at <Cool Technology X> meetups don't get to use X in the

> The Meetups are of high quality (in general) because there are so many people, but most of the people at <Cool Technology X> meetups don't get to use X in their day jobs. Clearly you had the misfortune of going to the wrong meetups. I haven't felt that way about any of the Meetups I attend, except for very obscure or emerging technologies (such as Haskell or Go - which I think is true almost everywhere). > The VC-funded startups are thick on quantity but dogshit (on average) for quality. Most of the talented people move to finance (or leave NYC) after 30 because the startup scene is so awful: most of the founders are well-connected wankbaskets, not real technologists. I'm sorry you feel that way. That has not been my experience in the slightest. Perhaps you were in NYC at the wrong time? Things have changed dramatically (for the better) since 2009/2010 or so.

carterschonwald 13y ago
A number of the organizers for the NYC Haskell meetup have businesses whose stacks are full Haskell.
- chimeracoder 13y ago
  As I typed that, I thought, "I wonder how long it will be before Carter corrects me on the Haskell comment". :)
  - carterschonwald 13y ago
    i've seen you on IRC or IRL before, right? (are you coming to the haskell computer music meetup this wednesday?)
    - chimeracoder 13y ago
      > i've seen you on IRC or IRL before, right? Yes, at several meetups - Lisp, Haskell.... most recently, you came to my "Go for Statistical Programming" talk to heckle me - though not about generics, as I was expecting. ;) > (are you coming to the haskell computer music meetup this wednesday? Damn. That's right up my alley, too. But I can't. :/
michaelochurch 13y ago
Perhaps you were in NYC at the wrong time? 2006-13. To be fair, my sample size on startup quality is about N = 15, so I'm sure I missed some good ones. And there are a lot of high-quality engineers (and people in general) in NYC. The engineers I met at Google NYC were a great crowd, for one example, and there are a lot of good people in finance. I think NYC would be a great tech hub if the city could solve the cost-of-living problem, which would expand the pool of possible startups and help real technologists (as opposed to well-connected turds) get more play. Until then, the smart money's on places like Austin for the 2020s.
- jasonwocky 13y ago
  I think NYC would be a great tech hub if the city could solve the cost-of-living problem Doesn't Silicon Valley have a similar problem?
  - michaelochurch 13y ago
    Yes, and that's why its first derivative is steeply negative. However, it's far enough ahead of everywhere else (due to six decades of momentum, developed before that problem existed) to still be #1.
- bradleyjg 13y ago
  I don't think the cost of living problem as such is solvable. When I point out that there are places in all five boros that are safe, affordable, and in reasonable commuting distance of the commercial parts of Manhattan I'm told that it is unrealistic to expect techies to want to live in such boring places. But it is very trendiness of e.g. Chelsea that makes it so expensive. The same exact criticism is even more potent when deployed for Austin or Chicago as an alternative. Positional goods are never going to be cheap, if they were they would no longer be desirable.
  - shmerl 13y ago
    > When I point out that there are places in all five boros that are safe, affordable, and in reasonable commuting distance of the commercial parts of Manhattan I'm told that it is unrealistic to expect techies to want to live in such boring places. Pricing is high everywhere in five boroughs in places which are safe and in reasonable commuting distance, regardless if anyone finds any of them "boring". NY is just a very expensive city when it comes to rent and let alone buying anything.
JohnTHaller 13y ago
I've been in NYC since 1996 and am looking to move to SF for the same reasons. Tech here has always been about financial services and just doesn't gel with the kind of startups you see in SF. I got tired of seeing demos of stuff that had already been done (and better) on the other coast and tired of VCs that just didn't understand software unless it was financial services-oriented. Or am I missing something? I'd be happy to venture out again and give it a shot.
- rexreed 13y ago
  Check out NYC Innovative Tech Meetup - it's a different vibe. Small, but growing. Mostly doers, not talkers. And from a wider range of industries and tech sectors: http://www.meetup.com/Innovative-Tech/events/132311232/ http://www.meetup.com/Innovative-Tech/events/132311232/
- chimeracoder 13y ago
  > Tech here has always been about financial services and just doesn't gel with the kind of startups you see in SF. I got tired of seeing demos of stuff that had already been done (and better) on the other coast It sounds like you haven't seen the full extent of what the NYC tech community has to offer, because I that view doesn't resonate with what I see at all. I'll admit that discover-ability is a problem in any community in any city, not just tech and not just in NYC (this is one problem that Meetup[0] aims to solve). If you're still in NYC, drop me a line (my email is easy to guess from my username), and I'd be happy to get together in person and give you a map of the New York tech community the way that I see it. > VCs that just didn't understand software unless it was financial services-oriented. Again, I think you've had the misfortune of meeting the wrong VCs. I'm an engineer, but I used to work for a venture firm until very recently, and of the ~40 companies in our portfolio, only one was financial in nature. And, ironically, that one company is based on the West Coast! The only statement that I might say about NYC startups versus west coast ones is that NYC startups often seem to interact with the other industries we have in NYC, instead of being "just" tech companies or B2C consumer products[1]. But that's just a general feeling, with no hard data to back it up. Certainly there's no dearth of either kind of startup[2] on either coast. (There's also definitely some sampling bias there, because those types of companies happened to be the investment focus of the company I worked for). [0] which, incidentally, is an NYC startup that has nothing to do with finance! [1] ie, [2] Tumblr and Mongodb are examples of successful "tech" and B2C companies in NYC, for example, and there are plenty of industry-targeted companies in SF too.

carterschonwald 13y ago

A number of the organizers for the NYC Haskell meetup have businesses whose stacks are full Haskell.

chimeracoder 13y ago
As I typed that, I thought, "I wonder how long it will be before Carter corrects me on the Haskell comment". :)
- carterschonwald 13y ago
  i've seen you on IRC or IRL before, right? (are you coming to the haskell computer music meetup this wednesday?)
  - chimeracoder 13y ago
    > i've seen you on IRC or IRL before, right? Yes, at several meetups - Lisp, Haskell.... most recently, you came to my "Go for Statistical Programming" talk to heckle me - though not about generics, as I was expecting. ;) > (are you coming to the haskell computer music meetup this wednesday? Damn. That's right up my alley, too. But I can't. :/

michaelochurch 13y ago

Perhaps you were in NYC at the wrong time? 2006-13. To be fair, my sample size on startup quality is about N = 15, so I'm sure I missed some good ones. And there are a lot of high-quality engineers (and people in general) in NYC. The engineers I met at Google NYC were a great crowd, for one example, and there are a lot of good people in finance. I think NYC would be a great tech hub if the city could solve the cost-of-living problem, which would expand the pool of possible startups and help real technologists (as opposed to well-connected turds) get more play. Until then, the smart money's on places like Austin for the 2020s.

jasonwocky 13y ago
I think NYC would be a great tech hub if the city could solve the cost-of-living problem Doesn't Silicon Valley have a similar problem?
- michaelochurch 13y ago
  Yes, and that's why its first derivative is steeply negative. However, it's far enough ahead of everywhere else (due to six decades of momentum, developed before that problem existed) to still be #1.
bradleyjg 13y ago
I don't think the cost of living problem as such is solvable. When I point out that there are places in all five boros that are safe, affordable, and in reasonable commuting distance of the commercial parts of Manhattan I'm told that it is unrealistic to expect techies to want to live in such boring places. But it is very trendiness of e.g. Chelsea that makes it so expensive. The same exact criticism is even more potent when deployed for Austin or Chicago as an alternative. Positional goods are never going to be cheap, if they were they would no longer be desirable.
- shmerl 13y ago
  > When I point out that there are places in all five boros that are safe, affordable, and in reasonable commuting distance of the commercial parts of Manhattan I'm told that it is unrealistic to expect techies to want to live in such boring places. Pricing is high everywhere in five boroughs in places which are safe and in reasonable commuting distance, regardless if anyone finds any of them "boring". NY is just a very expensive city when it comes to rent and let alone buying anything.

JohnTHaller 13y ago

I've been in NYC since 1996 and am looking to move to SF for the same reasons. Tech here has always been about financial services and just doesn't gel with the kind of startups you see in SF. I got tired of seeing demos of stuff that had already been done (and better) on the other coast and tired of VCs that just didn't understand software unless it was financial services-oriented. Or am I missing something? I'd be happy to venture out again and give it a shot.

rexreed 13y ago
Check out NYC Innovative Tech Meetup - it's a different vibe. Small, but growing. Mostly doers, not talkers. And from a wider range of industries and tech sectors: http://www.meetup.com/Innovative-Tech/events/132311232/ http://www.meetup.com/Innovative-Tech/events/132311232/
chimeracoder 13y ago
> Tech here has always been about financial services and just doesn't gel with the kind of startups you see in SF. I got tired of seeing demos of stuff that had already been done (and better) on the other coast It sounds like you haven't seen the full extent of what the NYC tech community has to offer, because I that view doesn't resonate with what I see at all. I'll admit that discover-ability is a problem in any community in any city, not just tech and not just in NYC (this is one problem that Meetup[0] aims to solve). If you're still in NYC, drop me a line (my email is easy to guess from my username), and I'd be happy to get together in person and give you a map of the New York tech community the way that I see it. > VCs that just didn't understand software unless it was financial services-oriented. Again, I think you've had the misfortune of meeting the wrong VCs. I'm an engineer, but I used to work for a venture firm until very recently, and of the ~40 companies in our portfolio, only one was financial in nature. And, ironically, that one company is based on the West Coast! The only statement that I might say about NYC startups versus west coast ones is that NYC startups often seem to interact with the other industries we have in NYC, instead of being "just" tech companies or B2C consumer products[1]. But that's just a general feeling, with no hard data to back it up. Certainly there's no dearth of either kind of startup[2] on either coast. (There's also definitely some sampling bias there, because those types of companies happened to be the investment focus of the company I worked for). [0] which, incidentally, is an NYC startup that has nothing to do with finance! [1] ie, [2] Tumblr and Mongodb are examples of successful "tech" and B2C companies in NYC, for example, and there are plenty of industry-targeted companies in SF too.