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I hate to sound condescending, but what are experiences with direct democracy? I recall someone mentioning that masses would make rather bad popular decisions w

by Ygg2 13y ago

I hate to sound condescending, but what are experiences with direct democracy? I recall someone mentioning that masses would make rather bad popular decisions with bad consequences that were hard to guess. It might be true or false. Maybe masses still did better than politicians. If you ask me, I think politics should be automated in some way. AI for that probably doesn't exist yet, but hey if they can replace surgeons, why not politicians?

darkarmani 13y ago
> I hate to sound condescending, but what are experiences with direct democracy? American idol?
annnnd 13y ago
They already replaced them - with dolls who smile and nod kindly to the camera. Real power stays hidden.
kamjam 13y ago
The problem with direct democracy, as I see it, is that it can be gamed just as easily for short term gain. Given how politics works in the US, as well as all the lobbyists and advertising budgets that go along with both of these I'd say that any policy that came up for a vote would be skewed one way or the other because the voter saw some "information". Imagine SOPA had gone to a public vote. Who would have won, Hollywood or the public interest?
- Ygg2 13y ago
  The bigger problem with democracy is how to stop the majority from prosecuting minorities? If majority of people voted - e.g. would gay marriages be allowed?! Would smoking tobacco become illegal (as in same laws that govern marijuana users cover tobacco users)?
- kibibu 13y ago
  I recall seeing a critique of California's Proposition system that everybody votes for services, nobody votes to pay for them. Of course there are also important movements like civil rights that don't always have majority support.
david927 13y ago
I hate to sound condescending, but what are experiences with direct democracy? While I'm American, I've lived for almost a decade in Switzerland which has direct democracy. I've seen it first-hand. that masses would make rather bad popular decisions In other words, you don't believe in Democracy. The whole point is that it comes down to the decisions of the people. Representatives were important when voting was a tough logistical problem; that's not the case anymore. Now they're a liability. There are 18 lobbyists for the finance industry per congressman, each representing a large amount of money in case what the people want contradicts what the finance industry wants. And that's just one industry. No wonder Congress currently has an approval rating of 5%. [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/09/congress-approval-rating_n_4069899.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/09/congress-approval-r...] It's abysmal, we agree, so why are we so petrified of an alternative that includes working together instead?
- berntb 13y ago
  How do these direct democracy solutions scale? Hardly linearly with population. I doubt you can organize USA's 300++ million people in the same way as a conservative and homogeneous small country (at least much less heterogeneous than USA; no gang/ghetto subcultures, for instance). Edit: Cough. The same point were made in other comments, but clearer and with good examples. I'll leave it here anyway.
- leephillips 13y ago
  "Representatives were important when voting was a tough logistical problem" That's not why the U.S. is a Republic with a legislature rather than a Democracy. It's because the founders thought that a (direct) Democracy was a bad idea. In a country where most people don't believe in free speech and think that it would be a good idea to force children to pray to Jesus in school, I tend to agree. As bad and corrupt as Congress is, this would be worse.

by Ygg2 13y ago

darkarmani 13y ago

> I hate to sound condescending, but what are experiences with direct democracy? American idol?

annnnd 13y ago

They already replaced them - with dolls who smile and nod kindly to the camera. Real power stays hidden.

kamjam 13y ago

The problem with direct democracy, as I see it, is that it can be gamed just as easily for short term gain. Given how politics works in the US, as well as all the lobbyists and advertising budgets that go along with both of these I'd say that any policy that came up for a vote would be skewed one way or the other because the voter saw some "information". Imagine SOPA had gone to a public vote. Who would have won, Hollywood or the public interest?

Ygg2 13y ago
The bigger problem with democracy is how to stop the majority from prosecuting minorities? If majority of people voted - e.g. would gay marriages be allowed?! Would smoking tobacco become illegal (as in same laws that govern marijuana users cover tobacco users)?
kibibu 13y ago
I recall seeing a critique of California's Proposition system that everybody votes for services, nobody votes to pay for them. Of course there are also important movements like civil rights that don't always have majority support.

david927 13y ago

I hate to sound condescending, but what are experiences with direct democracy? While I'm American, I've lived for almost a decade in Switzerland which has direct democracy. I've seen it first-hand. that masses would make rather bad popular decisions In other words, you don't believe in Democracy. The whole point is that it comes down to the decisions of the people. Representatives were important when voting was a tough logistical problem; that's not the case anymore. Now they're a liability. There are 18 lobbyists for the finance industry per congressman, each representing a large amount of money in case what the people want contradicts what the finance industry wants. And that's just one industry. No wonder Congress currently has an approval rating of 5%. [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/09/congress-approval-rating_n_4069899.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/09/congress-approval-r...] It's abysmal, we agree, so why are we so petrified of an alternative that includes working together instead?

berntb 13y ago
How do these direct democracy solutions scale? Hardly linearly with population. I doubt you can organize USA's 300++ million people in the same way as a conservative and homogeneous small country (at least much less heterogeneous than USA; no gang/ghetto subcultures, for instance). Edit: Cough. The same point were made in other comments, but clearer and with good examples. I'll leave it here anyway.
leephillips 13y ago
"Representatives were important when voting was a tough logistical problem" That's not why the U.S. is a Republic with a legislature rather than a Democracy. It's because the founders thought that a (direct) Democracy was a bad idea. In a country where most people don't believe in free speech and think that it would be a good idea to force children to pray to Jesus in school, I tend to agree. As bad and corrupt as Congress is, this would be worse.