7 ms·

Motorola's Project Ara

116 points by beauzero 13y ago

EFruit 13y ago
I wonder how long until the Ara hardware DRM keys and gamification of Ara modules begin. And how long until some virus engages the hardware locks on the modules and forces you to pay a fine to upgrade your phone ("Vendor" lock in). Or, on the contrary, when Ara modules start sliding out of their positions, crashing the phone, corrupting pictures, etc.; causing Motorola (or whoever) to build in locks. Or software that doesn't rely on hardware, but refuses to run when you don't have modules x, y, and z; or refuses to run when you DO have modules a, b, and c.
Danieru 13y ago
I am down right impressed. The concept is questionable in current practicality but I think it matters for something that they are trying. We can all agree a pc-comptaible like situation would be very cool. As a matter of good faith I shall withhold my scepticism and wait until they show concrete details.
deelowe 13y ago
Well, alrighty then... If this becomes a real thing and isn't obsolete 6 months after release, I'll take back all those negative things I said about phonebloks.
phreeza 13y ago
I would like to see us get this kind of compatibility (back) for laptops... Seems a lot more useful and feasible.
kyro 13y ago
This is a wonderful example of why you shouldn't shoot down concepts. When that designer unveiled his idea for Phonebloks, the majority of the feedback was criticism about how it wasn't technically feasible, how the designer was being unrealistic and downright naive for not understanding the mechanics [1]. But that's what concept design is about. You create what you envision to be a progressive solution, and find ways to make it technologically feasible. You would think that after all of the stories of Jobs demanding devices be smaller, sleeker, thinner, more responsive, being told it'd be near impossible to do, and seeing him actually pull it off, that people would be a bit more open to new design solutions. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6385105 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6385105
- TylerE 13y ago
  This is very different than Phonebloks, which was and is totally impractical. This seems to be for peripherals only, not the core system.
  - IanCal 13y ago
    > And really, skies the limit when it comes to the modules that can be attached to an endo. Hardware keyboard, faster processor, bigger battery, or something different altogether (taser gun perhaps?). Anything you can dream up. Emphasis mine. Hardly seems like just peripherals.
    - TylerE 13y ago
      Adding an ADDITIONAL faster processor is proven tech. Heck, Nintendo was doing that with $70 cartridges 20 years (e.g. the FX ship used in games like Starfox essentially overrode the built-in processor, but the main CPU in the console was still used for basic IO. It's when you're talking about actually REMOVING that built in processor that things get really interesting.
      - LarrySDonald 13y ago
        Well, there's no particular reason that part couldn't be swapped too, sort of like swapping the motherboard in a PC and then connecting everything else you already had. Yes, that would be essentially upgrading to a "new" phone but if the standard held you could still use the screen, camera, memory and so forth which isn't possible now (potentially later upgrading those bit by bit as need be).
  - kyro 13y ago
    From the official Motorola Blog: > "A module can be anything, from a new application processor to a new display or keyboard, an extra battery, a pulse oximeter--or something not yet thought of!" [1] So it doesn't seem too-far removed from the original Phonebloks concept. And you can't really tell me that had this new version been presented as the original, we wouldn't have seen the same feedback. [1] http://motorola-blog.blogspot.com/2013/10/goodbye-sticky-hello-ara.html http://motorola-blog.blogspot.com/2013/10/goodbye-sticky-hel...
fjcaetano 13y ago
The main difference I see from Ara to Phonebloks is the "chassi". While Phonebloks enable different sized components, Ara seems to limit each component to its own preset size. I wonder what would happen if you need a bigger "slot" for your block or if the "slot" is too big. Anyways, it's dream come true. If actually comes to market, will be utopic.
- special 13y ago
  >I wonder what would happen if you need a bigger "slot" for your block or if the "slot" is too big. You swap out your camera for a 5-block expansion hub, attach your camera to that and enjoy your 4 new slots.
gosukiwi 13y ago
It should feel like a lego phone, I can already envision myself stepping on a block.
krylonkid 13y ago
You think fragmentation is bad now?
progamler 13y ago
Motorola's announcement https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6632860 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6632860
tehwalrus 13y ago
I would actually buy this. I'd love to be able to swap components out, upgrade my camera from vanilla without it costing the earth, give myself two batteries, upgrade with some more RAM or storage just because... Maybe it's because I have used an iPhone for years, and I've just been missing out on Android configurability, but being able to potentially hack together new hardware that I can just attach to my phone... dude... that is awesome. EDIT: yes, I read the previous thread about Phonebloks too. I was suitably deflated by all the "this is unrealistic" comments. I am now re-excited :)
- special 13y ago
  I'm not as interested in upgrades as I am in being able to replace failing components. It's just silly that a faulty graphics card can cripple a whole computer currently.
  - coob 13y ago
    There is no such thing as a graphics card in a modern mobile device. It's all on the SoC, hence the name, 'System on a Chip'
  - tehwalrus 13y ago
    true. I didn't want to use the "swap up to a newer battery when capacity drops" as an argument, because that's trivial on Android phones at the moment (and not too bad on iPhones either.) Graphics card example is better, but I'm not convinced Ara is going to allow processor upgrades this way? (assuming system-on-a-chip, including graphics.) I would suspect that the endo would have 8GB flash for Android, and the processor/RAM/GPU chip, and you can add on top of that (at least, the endos seem to come with a fixed screen size, even though two choices or size are pictured.)
czr80 13y ago
Still think this makes no sense at all, though I'm happy to be proved wrong. I think the endgame for personal devices is making the electronics invisibly small, which requires more integration, not less.
- mwsherman 13y ago
  This might be the key insight. Maybe Phonebloks are misnamed, and will evolve into an ecosystem of wireless devices that might or might not reside in the same package.
- glind72 13y ago
  I kind of agree, I see a possible move to wearable devices as moving the integrated device out of the device. A speaker and mic in watch allows for voice communication. Google glass like devices for cameras and display with antennas and sensors embedded in clothing. These types of peripherals could be developed by third parties and connect to a core "device" and be somewhat platform independent.
- criley2 13y ago
  I don't see why I can't have a smartphone as my battery and processor, which connects wirelessly to any number of gadgets that "appear" individual. I don't see why my glasses and wrist computing or whatever all need separate powerful discrete components and radios when they should be parts of a modular whole. It'd be great to have a modular smartphone that sat in my pocket automatically recharging based on movement being converted by my clothing, powering a glasses or contacts based display with say a wrist band or something that tracked hand/finger movements in 3d and allowed me to interact with the 'alternate reality' UI I saw through the display. It doesn't really seem that far away, now.
  - czr80 13y ago
    Modular in this sense I can completely see, but this is different from having them designed to physically interlock.
special 13y ago
It might take a few attempts from a few different companies but this is the way smartphones are going to go. We've needed modularity in these tiny computers we carry around for a long time now. The cries of "more battery" for example are just a symptom of modularity deficiency. I am fully behind this project.
- rimantas 13y ago
  > this is the way smartphones are going to go. Sorry but no. I doubt it will ever go further than prototype and wouldn't be surprised if it never reacher working prototype stage. > The cries of "more battery" for example are just > a symptom of modularity deficiency How? Do you think "everything gets its own module" is really more engery efficient than SoC?
  - special 13y ago
    > Sorry but no. I doubt it will ever go further > than prototype and wouldn't be surprised if it > never reaches working prototype stage. People said Phonebloks would never be more than a weak concept but here we are. > How? I meant that users complaining about battery life can be a considered a more general complaint about not being able to upgrade their hardware. If manufacturers start adding better batteries, users will gripe about another component. They could keep plugging leaks like that. Or they can introduce modularity and build a new dam.
ChikkaChiChi 13y ago
I can't wait to support hardware that people can change on the fly. "Tell me in order what modules you have installed" "Take your phone apart and reseat everything" "Did you try blowing on the connectors" "When it dropped and split into a dozen pieces did you put them all together correctly" Sorry, but this will never see the light of day.
dabernathy89 13y ago
It'd be really neat to able to swap in zoom lenses when you might need them.
znowi 13y ago
Wow! This is awesome. Might be a revolution coming. The first thought I had was - IBM PC. This could be just that for the mobile market.
kayoone 13y ago
i think its awesome, but it only makes androids fragmentation problem worse.
- slantyyz 13y ago
  But if you put those fragments together, you get a phone that looks like a Mondrian.
Flimm 13y ago
Motorola's announcement: http://motorola-blog.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/goodbye-sticky-hello-ara.html http://motorola-blog.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/goodbye-sticky-h... HN link: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6634527 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6634527
51Cards 13y ago
Looking closely at the top photo it looks like they have differently shaped Exo's as well. One appears to be much wider, where the other is more iPhone 5 shaped.

116 points by beauzero 13y ago

I wonder how long until the Ara hardware DRM keys and gamification of Ara modules begin. And how long until some virus engages the hardware locks on the modules and forces you to pay a fine to upgrade your phone ("Vendor" lock in). Or, on the contrary, when Ara modules start sliding out of their positions, crashing the phone, corrupting pictures, etc.; causing Motorola (or whoever) to build in locks. Or software that doesn't rely on hardware, but refuses to run when you don't have modules x, y, and z; or refuses to run when you DO have modules a, b, and c.

Danieru 13y ago

I am down right impressed. The concept is questionable in current practicality but I think it matters for something that they are trying. We can all agree a pc-comptaible like situation would be very cool. As a matter of good faith I shall withhold my scepticism and wait until they show concrete details.

deelowe 13y ago

Well, alrighty then... If this becomes a real thing and isn't obsolete 6 months after release, I'll take back all those negative things I said about phonebloks.

phreeza 13y ago

I would like to see us get this kind of compatibility (back) for laptops... Seems a lot more useful and feasible.

kyro 13y ago

This is a wonderful example of why you shouldn't shoot down concepts. When that designer unveiled his idea for Phonebloks, the majority of the feedback was criticism about how it wasn't technically feasible, how the designer was being unrealistic and downright naive for not understanding the mechanics [1]. But that's what concept design is about. You create what you envision to be a progressive solution, and find ways to make it technologically feasible. You would think that after all of the stories of Jobs demanding devices be smaller, sleeker, thinner, more responsive, being told it'd be near impossible to do, and seeing him actually pull it off, that people would be a bit more open to new design solutions. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6385105 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6385105

TylerE 13y ago
This is very different than Phonebloks, which was and is totally impractical. This seems to be for peripherals only, not the core system.
- IanCal 13y ago
  > And really, skies the limit when it comes to the modules that can be attached to an endo. Hardware keyboard, faster processor, bigger battery, or something different altogether (taser gun perhaps?). Anything you can dream up. Emphasis mine. Hardly seems like just peripherals.
  - TylerE 13y ago
    Adding an ADDITIONAL faster processor is proven tech. Heck, Nintendo was doing that with $70 cartridges 20 years (e.g. the FX ship used in games like Starfox essentially overrode the built-in processor, but the main CPU in the console was still used for basic IO. It's when you're talking about actually REMOVING that built in processor that things get really interesting.
    - LarrySDonald 13y ago
      Well, there's no particular reason that part couldn't be swapped too, sort of like swapping the motherboard in a PC and then connecting everything else you already had. Yes, that would be essentially upgrading to a "new" phone but if the standard held you could still use the screen, camera, memory and so forth which isn't possible now (potentially later upgrading those bit by bit as need be).
- kyro 13y ago
  From the official Motorola Blog: > "A module can be anything, from a new application processor to a new display or keyboard, an extra battery, a pulse oximeter--or something not yet thought of!" [1] So it doesn't seem too-far removed from the original Phonebloks concept. And you can't really tell me that had this new version been presented as the original, we wouldn't have seen the same feedback. [1] http://motorola-blog.blogspot.com/2013/10/goodbye-sticky-hello-ara.html http://motorola-blog.blogspot.com/2013/10/goodbye-sticky-hel...

fjcaetano 13y ago

The main difference I see from Ara to Phonebloks is the "chassi". While Phonebloks enable different sized components, Ara seems to limit each component to its own preset size. I wonder what would happen if you need a bigger "slot" for your block or if the "slot" is too big. Anyways, it's dream come true. If actually comes to market, will be utopic.

special 13y ago
>I wonder what would happen if you need a bigger "slot" for your block or if the "slot" is too big. You swap out your camera for a 5-block expansion hub, attach your camera to that and enjoy your 4 new slots.

gosukiwi 13y ago

It should feel like a lego phone, I can already envision myself stepping on a block.

krylonkid 13y ago

You think fragmentation is bad now?

progamler 13y ago

Motorola's announcement https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6632860 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6632860

tehwalrus 13y ago

I would actually buy this. I'd love to be able to swap components out, upgrade my camera from vanilla without it costing the earth, give myself two batteries, upgrade with some more RAM or storage just because... Maybe it's because I have used an iPhone for years, and I've just been missing out on Android configurability, but being able to potentially hack together new hardware that I can just attach to my phone... dude... that is awesome. EDIT: yes, I read the previous thread about Phonebloks too. I was suitably deflated by all the "this is unrealistic" comments. I am now re-excited :)

special 13y ago
I'm not as interested in upgrades as I am in being able to replace failing components. It's just silly that a faulty graphics card can cripple a whole computer currently.
- coob 13y ago
  There is no such thing as a graphics card in a modern mobile device. It's all on the SoC, hence the name, 'System on a Chip'
- tehwalrus 13y ago
  true. I didn't want to use the "swap up to a newer battery when capacity drops" as an argument, because that's trivial on Android phones at the moment (and not too bad on iPhones either.) Graphics card example is better, but I'm not convinced Ara is going to allow processor upgrades this way? (assuming system-on-a-chip, including graphics.) I would suspect that the endo would have 8GB flash for Android, and the processor/RAM/GPU chip, and you can add on top of that (at least, the endos seem to come with a fixed screen size, even though two choices or size are pictured.)

czr80 13y ago

Still think this makes no sense at all, though I'm happy to be proved wrong. I think the endgame for personal devices is making the electronics invisibly small, which requires more integration, not less.

mwsherman 13y ago
This might be the key insight. Maybe Phonebloks are misnamed, and will evolve into an ecosystem of wireless devices that might or might not reside in the same package.
glind72 13y ago
I kind of agree, I see a possible move to wearable devices as moving the integrated device out of the device. A speaker and mic in watch allows for voice communication. Google glass like devices for cameras and display with antennas and sensors embedded in clothing. These types of peripherals could be developed by third parties and connect to a core "device" and be somewhat platform independent.
criley2 13y ago
I don't see why I can't have a smartphone as my battery and processor, which connects wirelessly to any number of gadgets that "appear" individual. I don't see why my glasses and wrist computing or whatever all need separate powerful discrete components and radios when they should be parts of a modular whole. It'd be great to have a modular smartphone that sat in my pocket automatically recharging based on movement being converted by my clothing, powering a glasses or contacts based display with say a wrist band or something that tracked hand/finger movements in 3d and allowed me to interact with the 'alternate reality' UI I saw through the display. It doesn't really seem that far away, now.
- czr80 13y ago
  Modular in this sense I can completely see, but this is different from having them designed to physically interlock.

special 13y ago

It might take a few attempts from a few different companies but this is the way smartphones are going to go. We've needed modularity in these tiny computers we carry around for a long time now. The cries of "more battery" for example are just a symptom of modularity deficiency. I am fully behind this project.

rimantas 13y ago
> this is the way smartphones are going to go. Sorry but no. I doubt it will ever go further than prototype and wouldn't be surprised if it never reacher working prototype stage. > The cries of "more battery" for example are just > a symptom of modularity deficiency How? Do you think "everything gets its own module" is really more engery efficient than SoC?
- special 13y ago
  > Sorry but no. I doubt it will ever go further > than prototype and wouldn't be surprised if it > never reaches working prototype stage. People said Phonebloks would never be more than a weak concept but here we are. > How? I meant that users complaining about battery life can be a considered a more general complaint about not being able to upgrade their hardware. If manufacturers start adding better batteries, users will gripe about another component. They could keep plugging leaks like that. Or they can introduce modularity and build a new dam.

ChikkaChiChi 13y ago

I can't wait to support hardware that people can change on the fly. "Tell me in order what modules you have installed" "Take your phone apart and reseat everything" "Did you try blowing on the connectors" "When it dropped and split into a dozen pieces did you put them all together correctly" Sorry, but this will never see the light of day.

dabernathy89 13y ago

It'd be really neat to able to swap in zoom lenses when you might need them.

znowi 13y ago

Wow! This is awesome. Might be a revolution coming. The first thought I had was - IBM PC. This could be just that for the mobile market.

kayoone 13y ago

i think its awesome, but it only makes androids fragmentation problem worse.

slantyyz 13y ago
But if you put those fragments together, you get a phone that looks like a Mondrian.

Flimm 13y ago

Motorola's announcement: http://motorola-blog.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/goodbye-sticky-hello-ara.html http://motorola-blog.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/goodbye-sticky-h... HN link: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6634527 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6634527

51Cards 13y ago

Looking closely at the top photo it looks like they have differently shaped Exo's as well. One appears to be much wider, where the other is more iPhone 5 shaped.