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> there’s a better chance that banks and governments of the world will start to get serious about cleaning up the global mess they’ve created Never gonna happe
by snitko 13y ago
> there’s a better chance that banks and governments of the world will start to get serious about cleaning up the global mess they’ve created
Never gonna happen. Bitcoin is the cleaning we need. There's absolutely no incentive for governments or banks (which are in bed with governments) to make things better for those, who are not in the club.
I don't think Bitcoin's gonna wipe out the very idea of government, but it certainly has a potential to give rise to free economic zones, where no government can have its way. And their success can, in turn, convince even more people that they don't really need anyone to govern them.
- oleganza 13y agoBut who will build the roads? We need someone to force people to do stuff in public's interest.
- snitko 13y agoWhere we're going we don't need roads http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flge_rw6RG0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flge_rw6RG0
- oleganza 13y agoThat's the best answer.
- mattstreet 13y agoRequire real money for things related to those services? Such as buying gasoline?
- oleganza 13y agoSome economists suggest a better measure: establish a coercive currency and print it as they like to pay for public goods. Just put a gun to people's face when they don't want fiat currency and then print all you want. Very practical solution.
- Weltan 13y agoWhat is a coercive currency and which economists suggest it?
- oleganza 13y agoUSD is "legal tender" which is direct coercion (you must accept USD as payment for a debt). Indirect coercion is multitudes of currency controls, capital controls, taxation, banking licenses etc. All the laws and regulations backed by well-oiled guns of SWAT teams that prevent people from easily trading and saving in whatever currency they want. Starting with Keynes and finishing with Krugman, Bernanke and Appelbaum who suggest forcing people to spend more by printing more money and increasing inflation. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/27/business/economy/in-fed-and-out-many-now-think-inflation-helps.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1383055318-US6B1kqVvYmzzWslTAUFDw http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/27/business/economy/in-fed-an...
- Weltan 13y agoI see, so a coercive currency is just fiat currency (or just currency) with an appended modifier. This modifier itself is then qualified with 'indirect' because the regulations enabling the use of these currencies is backed by government force which, although rarely utilised in the context of the commercial transaction, is ever-present. In relation to this indirect coercion these economists are (directly? or indirectly?) forcing people to spend money through monetary policy. Is that about right in standard parlance?
- oleganza 13y agoOk, my bad. The currency itself can hardly be called "coercive". Coercion is done by people to people. When I was talking about economic policies, I meant this recipe: 1. Establish a government-issued currency that it can print when it wants. 2. Make people use this currency by creating barriers to other currencies and forcing people to accept it as payment for debts. 3. Print money according to some made up theory on what's better for society and give this money to whoever needs it it more (according to a theory at hand).
- pjc50 13y agoBitcoin seems to be a very good way of creating a new "club" of a small number of bitcoin-wealthy at the expense of everyone else. Being resistant to legal action is not an advantage, it will create an environment rife with fraud and security risks.
- oleganza 13y agoBitcoin owners become wealthy not by stealing, but because government is stealing from people via money printing and capital controls and regulations. Then, "wealthy bitcoiners" gladly share part of their investment and teach everyone about Bitcoin for free.
- pjc50 13y agoBitcoin is highly stealable, in a world of vulnerable computers and non-reversible transactions.
- oleganza 13y agoGold and USD is even easier to steal because it's damn too expensive or impossible to protect them. You never actually own USD, by the way, it's always in some banker's balance sheet. See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102 Protecting Bitcoin by splitting the password via 7-of-12 SSSS and sending the keys to 12 of your friends around the globe costs almost zero. The amount of security does not depend on how much you are willing to spend on it. It only depends on your paranoia. Most of the people are safe enough with cheap offline computer. Fugitives can use more complex schemes.
- snitko 13y agoThere must be some reason why people would prefer the currency of one club over another. Maybe it's because in "the Bitcoin club" no one tells you what you can do with your money, no one devalues your money at will and no one steals from you and says it's "legitimate taxation" because you allegedly signed some social contract you've never actually seen.