5 ms·

Niche? I have a Pro 2 (in fact it's the 8Gb/256Gb model). I use it to take hand-witten notes in meetings. I draw diagrams on it, read and reply to mail using Ou

Niche? I have a Pro 2 (in fact it's the 8Gb/256Gb model). I use it to take hand-witten notes in meetings. I draw diagrams on it, read and reply to mail using Outlook, and create documents and presentations. Best of all, I have Visual Studio, SQL Server and everything else I need for my job. Oh, and Video, which is awesome. It's the best non-desktop device I've ever used. So niche it may be, but definitely broader than just pen computing. For the record, I have a MBA too. It hasn't been switched on since the Surface arrived last week.

rayiner 13y ago
For taking notes, reading and replying to email, and creating documents and presentations, Visual Studio, any Ultrabook with a bigger screen or better keyboard is a better tool (say a Vaio 11 with similar thickness/weight). That leaves drawing diagrams as the only think the Surface Pro is a better tool for. I call that niche.
- jmspring 13y ago
  "any Ultrabook with a bigger screen or better keyboard is a better tool" Actually, the device that gets you creating in the way most comfortable for one's self is the better tool. You also skipped over the "take notes, and draw diagrams" -- pen computing there.
  - ghshephard 13y ago
    He mentioned drawing diagrams. And, for 99% of people, the handwriting recognition is not good enough to beat the effectiveness of just typing or dictating. That might be a great poll - what percentage of HN posts are done with a pen versus dictation (which I do a lot of mine with when I'm on a smart phone) versus keyboard (vast majority) versus pen. Right now the Wacom tablet is the niche that justifies the high-price for the Pro. Bring it down another $200-$300 and it starts to make inroads into the mass market (where it most certainly is not a player right now)
    - TylerE 13y ago
      Yer not getting it. The point is to take notes in a format useful the user, which frequently is not computer-friendly. I know at the office we frequently take smartphone photos of whiteboards. Same usecase.
      - ghshephard 13y ago
        Give me a bit of credit for knowing something about taking notes. Having notes immediately searchable and recallable is useful to the user. When I take notes in a meeting with evernote, they are available on my tablet, my smartphone, my laptop, and, when I head back to the office, on my desktop. They are collected in the appropriate notebook, and tagged. Searching for notes over the last few years based on their content is invaluable - and, my writing will never be good enough for handwriting recognition to do the job of understanding what I've written. For those people with neat handwriting, that the recognition algorithms can pick up - I can understand how writing with a pen might be more cnovenient.
        Spearchucker 13y ago
        Your scenario is different to mine. I use meta data to find handwitten notes in OneNote. I tried EverNote and found it had bells and whistles but wasn't anywhere near as easy as OneNote for tap to open app, yap again for a new note, and write with a stylus.
        ghshephard 13y ago
        Fair enough. I'm also the type of person who has a single inbox, and just searches for everything. No Tags/Folders.
    - iamshs 13y ago
      Just to butt in regarding the handwriting recognition, I used OneNote extensively to take class notes during my Masters. It faired pretty well. The pen is godsend, just not for writing but other tasks too like software menu selection.
- ximeng 13y ago
  Ultrabook you can't use as a tablet. For me Surface Pro is a good enough tablet combined with a good enough ultrabook, so it saved me from buying two devices.
- Tloewald 13y ago
  People underestimate the social construction of writing in meetings versus typing. I used a Newton MP2000 for several years as a replacement for paper notes (and calendar, etc.) and it was magnificent in that role -- pulling out a laptop, however tiny, and typing in meetings was and likely often still is socially unacceptable. By contrast, an iPad won't replace a Newton in this context -- you can't write on it worth a damn, and typing on a glass keyboard is still typing. I think Microsoft's vision for the Surface as a do-everything computer is admirable, but their execution has been fairly poor thus far, and I suspect it's because the hardware and software aren't there yet. Does anyone doubt that Apple would release a Surface-like device if they thought it was good enough? I'm sure there are prototypes at Apple dating back years (in fact I saw a demo of a pen-based Duo back in the mid-90s -- between Jobs's first and second comings). Mac OS X already has handwriting recognition and all kinds of supporting infrastructure in it, the difference is that Apple doesn't release products it doesn't think it can sell; Microsoft is willing to experiment and kind of desperate.
niels_olson 13y ago
> It hasn't been switched on since the Surface arrived last week How's the handwriting recognition? Evernote integration? What do you use for diagrams? Drawing? Will Inkscape and Gimp run and work with the pen? How does handwriting work when there's no network connectivity?
- com2kid 13y ago
  Microsoft solved handwriting recognition over a decade ago with Tablet PC. (Disclaimer: I worked as a vendor on some Tablet PC goodness, and currently work for MS, though in an unrelated area.) My old Windows XP Tablet PC 2003 machine could recognize my chicken scratch with ease, and things have only gotten better since then. Handwriting recognition in Windows has never required a network connection. As for notes, OneNote is by far the best note taking app out there (IMHO), I went an entire year in college without using a single sheet of paper. Though I understand Evernote's appeal as well. (It has always been a bit too heavyweight for me, I just want a really big piece of lined paper and some tabs for organization)
  - mistermann 13y ago
    Can you recommend anywhere to learn about the capabilities of one note? I start to take a look at it and then get overwhelmed and vow to come back when I have more time to figure it out, but keep forgetting.
    - dangrossman 13y ago
      You can download OneNote and use it free for 30 days. http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/try/ http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/try/
    - xerophtye 13y ago
      Best source: OneNote itself. Just open that thing and go throught the provided notebook. Pretty cool stuff
  - rplnt 13y ago
    Can anyone comment on how is it with different languages? Or mixed languages? For notes I use my native language, sometimes the language of the country I work in, and I mix in a lot of English as well. I think my android keyboard prediction (SwiftKey) hates me.

rayiner 13y ago

For taking notes, reading and replying to email, and creating documents and presentations, Visual Studio, any Ultrabook with a bigger screen or better keyboard is a better tool (say a Vaio 11 with similar thickness/weight). That leaves drawing diagrams as the only think the Surface Pro is a better tool for. I call that niche.

jmspring 13y ago
"any Ultrabook with a bigger screen or better keyboard is a better tool" Actually, the device that gets you creating in the way most comfortable for one's self is the better tool. You also skipped over the "take notes, and draw diagrams" -- pen computing there.
- ghshephard 13y ago
  He mentioned drawing diagrams. And, for 99% of people, the handwriting recognition is not good enough to beat the effectiveness of just typing or dictating. That might be a great poll - what percentage of HN posts are done with a pen versus dictation (which I do a lot of mine with when I'm on a smart phone) versus keyboard (vast majority) versus pen. Right now the Wacom tablet is the niche that justifies the high-price for the Pro. Bring it down another $200-$300 and it starts to make inroads into the mass market (where it most certainly is not a player right now)
  - TylerE 13y ago
    Yer not getting it. The point is to take notes in a format useful the user, which frequently is not computer-friendly. I know at the office we frequently take smartphone photos of whiteboards. Same usecase.
    - ghshephard 13y ago
      Give me a bit of credit for knowing something about taking notes. Having notes immediately searchable and recallable is useful to the user. When I take notes in a meeting with evernote, they are available on my tablet, my smartphone, my laptop, and, when I head back to the office, on my desktop. They are collected in the appropriate notebook, and tagged. Searching for notes over the last few years based on their content is invaluable - and, my writing will never be good enough for handwriting recognition to do the job of understanding what I've written. For those people with neat handwriting, that the recognition algorithms can pick up - I can understand how writing with a pen might be more cnovenient.
      - Spearchucker 13y ago
        Your scenario is different to mine. I use meta data to find handwitten notes in OneNote. I tried EverNote and found it had bells and whistles but wasn't anywhere near as easy as OneNote for tap to open app, yap again for a new note, and write with a stylus.
        ghshephard 13y ago
        Fair enough. I'm also the type of person who has a single inbox, and just searches for everything. No Tags/Folders.
  - iamshs 13y ago
    Just to butt in regarding the handwriting recognition, I used OneNote extensively to take class notes during my Masters. It faired pretty well. The pen is godsend, just not for writing but other tasks too like software menu selection.
ximeng 13y ago
Ultrabook you can't use as a tablet. For me Surface Pro is a good enough tablet combined with a good enough ultrabook, so it saved me from buying two devices.
Tloewald 13y ago
People underestimate the social construction of writing in meetings versus typing. I used a Newton MP2000 for several years as a replacement for paper notes (and calendar, etc.) and it was magnificent in that role -- pulling out a laptop, however tiny, and typing in meetings was and likely often still is socially unacceptable. By contrast, an iPad won't replace a Newton in this context -- you can't write on it worth a damn, and typing on a glass keyboard is still typing. I think Microsoft's vision for the Surface as a do-everything computer is admirable, but their execution has been fairly poor thus far, and I suspect it's because the hardware and software aren't there yet. Does anyone doubt that Apple would release a Surface-like device if they thought it was good enough? I'm sure there are prototypes at Apple dating back years (in fact I saw a demo of a pen-based Duo back in the mid-90s -- between Jobs's first and second comings). Mac OS X already has handwriting recognition and all kinds of supporting infrastructure in it, the difference is that Apple doesn't release products it doesn't think it can sell; Microsoft is willing to experiment and kind of desperate.

niels_olson 13y ago

> It hasn't been switched on since the Surface arrived last week How's the handwriting recognition? Evernote integration? What do you use for diagrams? Drawing? Will Inkscape and Gimp run and work with the pen? How does handwriting work when there's no network connectivity?

com2kid 13y ago
Microsoft solved handwriting recognition over a decade ago with Tablet PC. (Disclaimer: I worked as a vendor on some Tablet PC goodness, and currently work for MS, though in an unrelated area.) My old Windows XP Tablet PC 2003 machine could recognize my chicken scratch with ease, and things have only gotten better since then. Handwriting recognition in Windows has never required a network connection. As for notes, OneNote is by far the best note taking app out there (IMHO), I went an entire year in college without using a single sheet of paper. Though I understand Evernote's appeal as well. (It has always been a bit too heavyweight for me, I just want a really big piece of lined paper and some tabs for organization)
- mistermann 13y ago
  Can you recommend anywhere to learn about the capabilities of one note? I start to take a look at it and then get overwhelmed and vow to come back when I have more time to figure it out, but keep forgetting.
  - dangrossman 13y ago
    You can download OneNote and use it free for 30 days. http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/try/ http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/try/
  - xerophtye 13y ago
    Best source: OneNote itself. Just open that thing and go throught the provided notebook. Pretty cool stuff
- rplnt 13y ago
  Can anyone comment on how is it with different languages? Or mixed languages? For notes I use my native language, sometimes the language of the country I work in, and I mix in a lot of English as well. I think my android keyboard prediction (SwiftKey) hates me.